Sasquatch Coffee


Update: Bigfoot DNA Project Using Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies for Samples

Posted by: Craig Woolheater on July 6th, 2011

Cryptomundian Skinwalker tips us off to this update.

Richard Lindsay has offered this chronological rundown of the events covered here on Cryptomundo concerning the purported shooting of two Sasquatch and the inclusion of said two Sasquatch in the DNA study of Dr. Melba Ketchum. The Erickson Project, and/or the Okympic Project.

Chronology of the Recent Bigfoot Shooting Story

I know most of the players in this story, and I believe that it is true. At least the shooting part. Here is what happened.

1. The shooter shows up on Taxidermy.net and starts a thread saying he just shot 2 Bigfoots, now what do I do? The shooter is well known on the site and is a frequent contributor, though not well liked at all (regarded as unethical hunter).

2. Thread quickly spins out of control going to many pages. Story is revealed on the thread.

3. Mods get message that shooter is being harassed and threatened by people as a result of the thread, apparently mad that he killed two BF’s.

4. Thread is shut down.

5. A man named “Bear Hunter” from Taxidermy.net gets involved, calls up the shooter and questions him at length. The story outline results:

The shooter was a passenger in the truck near the Dixie Mountain Game Refuge on the Plumas National Forest west of Frenchman Lake in the Sierra Nevada on the border of California and Nevada. It was mid-November 2010 and they were bear hunting.

They came around a bend, and there was a Bigfoot in the road on all fours. The shooter grabbed his gun and jumped out of his vehicle. As he jumped out, he saw the Bigfoot get up on two legs and start running towards him waving her arms at him. When the Bigfoot saw the gun, she turned and started to run away. The shooter shot her in the side of the chest, and the bullet penetrated her lungs.

She crashed off into the brush and died. The three men went down into the brush and saw her there. It was then that they realized that she was not a bear at all. They walked back up onto the road.

When they got to the road, they saw two small, strange creatures running towards them, sometimes on two legs, sometimes in four legs. The shooter raised his gun, fired and shot one of the creatures dead. The other small creature apparently escaped. As the shooter cradled the dying creatures in his arms, they all three realized that it was a young creature of the same type that got shot.

The shooter did not shoot the young Bigfoot because it was threatening him. Apparently he just shot it for some unknown reason. At this point, they figured out that they had killed two Bigfoots.

The two men with the shooter were so hysterical and upset about the shootings that they took the shooter’s gun away from him and pointed it at him, threatening him. They told him that if he tried to shoot another one of those animals, they would shoot him instead. The story is that everyone was so upset by that point, that they left the area. The shooter said that they left the animals in the road. The shooter said he was not going back to the area until next fall.

The basic outline of the story is uncontroversial and is acknowledged by everyone who believes the story. The only differences are about the motivations of the shooter.

6. Bear hunter puts the shooter in contact with the Olympic Project (OP) in Washington State. The OP says, “We’re just trying to keep the shooter out of jail! The shooter is said to be very frightened of going to jail over the killing of the two Bigfoots. At this point, the story seems to die.

7. Suddenly Bear Hunter realizes that the shooter is deeply involved in the OP. This seems odd. Why is a guy who just shot two Bigfoots suddenly a major part of this organization?

8. Mysteriously, the Olympic Project appears on various Bigfoot forums, bragging that they have enough Bigfoot DNA samples to last for years. Bear Hunter regards this as curious and suspects that the OP may have harvested one or both of the killed Bigfoots or parts of them and is keeping them on ice somewhere.

9. Bizarrely, the Olympic Project submits a very strange sample to Melba Ketchum’s Bigfoot DNA project. It resembles a slice off the thigh of a human cadaver, except that it is very hairy. The color of the hair is the same color as that of the killed mother Bigfoot. Dr. Ketchum freaks out because she thinks she is in possession of tissue sliced off a dead human. She is worried that police will raid her lab and tries to get others to hold it for her instead. The others decline to take it off her hands.

10. Bear Hunter states that another slice of dead Bigfoot tissue was also submitted to Ketchum, this one the same color as the baby Bigfoot that got shot. No one knows how the samples test out.

11. I break the story.

12. Pandemonium ensues.

13. The OP appears on forums, agreeing with the basics of the story: that the two Bigfoots were shot in the time and place where they were killed. They differ on the motivations of the shooter. They also reveal that the shooter went back to the site two weeks later, dug through the snow and found a nice chunk of the dead Bigfoot mother. The shooter turned the chunk over to the OP, who then sent it to Ketchum.

Credibility:

Adrian Erickson, the Olympic Project, Bear Hunter and the shooter all think that the Bigfoot shooting story is true in its basic facts. They also agree that a chunk of one dead Bigfoot was sent to Ketchum’s lab.

Adrian Erickson, Richard Stubstad and Ketchum agree that Ketchum freaked out when she got the sample because she thought it was from a human cadaver.

People associated with Taxidermy.net agree that the long thread existed until it was shut down.

Possibility of a hoax: The general conclusion on the Net is that the story itself is fake. Let us look at that possibility.

We know that the Taxidermy.net thread is real. What if the shooter just made up the whole story? It’s possible, but I do not think he made up this story. I don’t like him at all, but he’s not a faker or a hoaxer.

What if the OP is making up the story? I don’t like these guys either, but they don’t make stuff up. They are good researchers with excellent integrity. They don’t hoax. However, it is possible that they were hoaxed by the shooter, although I don’t believe that this happened.

The hunk of flesh, so human that it freaked out the DNA lab, adds credibility to the story. The OP says it’s a chunk of Bigfoot flesh from one the killed Bigfoots. Could it have been hoaxed? Possibly. However, someone would have had to have had access to a human cadaver and then sawed off a chunk of the thigh. How likely is that? Further, this would have had to have been a very strange human cadaver, one covered with hair. And the hair would have had to have been the exact same color of the hair of one of the Bigfoots that got shot. How likely is that?

Conclusion: As you can see, there is a great deal about this incident that seems to point away from a hoax or a lie. In fact, I believe it is neither. I believe the basis for the story is true. The two Bigfoots were indeed shot dead in California in November. At least one piece from one of the Bigfoots was sent in by the OP to Ketchum’s DNA lab for testing. The chunk looked so much like a slice of human cadaver that the director of the lab, a veterinarian, freaked out.

There you have it.

About Craig Woolheater
Co-founder of Cryptomundo in 2005. I have appeared in or contributed to the following TV programs, documentaries and films: OLN's Mysterious Encounters: "Caddo Critter", Southern Fried Bigfoot, Travel Channel's Weird Travels: "Bigfoot", History Channel's MonsterQuest: "Swamp Stalker", The Wild Man of the Navidad Destination America's Monsters and Mysteries in America: Texas Terror - Lake Worth Monster.


41 Responses to “Update: Bigfoot DNA Project Using Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies for Samples”

  1. Kahil Nettleton responds:

    Ok…that was back in November….it is July now… so where are the results? where are the images/videos? where are the bodies?

    You’d think that such a great discovery would have made the mainstream news by now and not just bound to the confines of obscure blogs and forums.

    So… Until verifiable proof is presented, we have nothing more than a story being backed up by another story…

  2. Justin31p responds:

    I dont know about this lindsay guy or this ever changing story, but I will reiterate that I think this Erickson has the best chance to be the real game changer that everyone has been waiting for, hell even Moneymaker agrees and I’m sure it was hard for him to do that.

    Ok, now with that out of the way, I have to ask why the hysteria over someone shooting and killing a bigfoot? Now if that story was true, I would agree that shooting and killing the baby was wrong. But if bigfoot is offically on the doesnt exist page I think its perfectly understandable that if a hunter saw it in the wild he would shoot it and bring it in for verfication and discovery. If its proven that it exists it will no doubt be put on the endangered list and protected. So I just dont get all this hysteria of someone shooting a bigfoot as if its some kind of god. Its an animal, animals are hunted and killed every day why would this be any more immoral than killing a bear?

  3. slappy responds:

    the absence of any sort of legitimate, documented, and verifiable evidence leads to only one conclusion: there isn’t any.

    i will never understand the population of bigfoot “researchers” and “experts” who claim to have scientific or video proof of the existence of this creature, but refuse to make it public. it’s hard to conclude anything other than that “proof” does not stand up to scrutiny.

  4. RWRidley responds:

    An interesting wrinkle perhaps – I just listened to a Bigfoot Busters podcast dated Monday, November 1, 2010. Erickson called in and talked about 2 squatches accidentally shot and killed in Canada by some hunters. Doesn’t fit the timeline or location, but it seems like a strange coincidence.

    Here’s a link to the podcast. It’s about 2hrs, but I found the entire thing fascinating. Erickson calls in somewhere at the start of the second hour during Dr. Ketchum’s interview.

  5. whiteriverfisherman responds:

    Nice story but no facts. No body, no proof of anything. If this guy kill a Bigfoot shame on him and if killed the young one just for fun then he is a sick individual. Where are the bodies? No one is going leave two Bigfoot bodies knowing how much they would be worth to science. As for being afraid of going jail, I call BS. How can they arrest him for a killing something that supposedly does not exist? This story has more holes in it than the dead Bigfoot. As for Ericson project, I don’t buy it either. If they prove me wrong, great!! I won’t hold my breath for that one. There seems to be a sudden rash of elaborate hoaxes brewing and I have to ask myself “What is the motivation for spending all that money to fool people?” My favorite weekly break through is the revelation that female Bigfoot DNA is 100% human. What that means is the sample they tested came from a female Human! Duh!!
    I have been reading this blog for several years. Almost every person that comments here has asked the same question at least once. “Where is the proof?” Once again the answer is the same, there aint none! Not for Matt M’s claims, Ericson’s so called proof, the crappy videos of supposed Bigfoot, smudges or any other example that has come up over the past month or so. I really do not know how all these people making these claims can think that anyone can take them seriously. You don’t have proof you aint got Jack!!

  6. whiteriverfisherman responds:

    Sorry about typos

  7. cmrinc responds:

    This is about far fetched as it gets.

  8. Nny responds:

    I agree with Kahil.

    This story is incredible. The way it’s broken down, it does seem to make sense now…. but it’s just… too incredible.

    That was November. This is July.

    If any of this was credible, one would think it would be more mainstream than this.

  9. shownuff responds:

    @ Kahil Nettleton, And I thought I was a dedicated member to this site. Actually Dr. Melba Ketchum was on a very popular radio station talking about this. And if you get all of your news straight from the TV then that is really sad. I also noticed that there was no mention to where the bodies are. Or what happened to them. The Doctor is 100% sure of her DNA samples. Why would she throw her new business as well as her credibility under the bus? She must have something. I really do not care about the Erikson Or Olympic projects. but, I am happy that a person of her stature Dr. Melba Ketchum is coming forward with this evidence. I can care less about the story. Plus if that hunter is that crazy how about revoking his hunting license! You can go on utube and search her name and it will have the interview of her on the radio station. I think its 3 parts. Thanks Craig for posting this. Anyways have a great week everyone.

  10. chewbaccalacca responds:

    It’s virtually inconceivable that, with cellphone cameras so prevalent nowadays, that no one thought of snapping a shot of the bodies; if none are forthcoming, that would put this one squarely in the hoax category for me. But until more evidence (or photos) are forthcoming, I’ll remain on the fence about this one.

  11. Redrose999 responds:

    Until I see another lab, unrelated to this circus analyze the DNA, get pictures and undeniable repeatable results by other labs, I can’t have any faith in this project.

    The history and drama behind it all is all too unprofessional.

  12. Particle Noun responds:

    The fact that Dr. Ketchum is on board lends this enormous credibility. If this is a hoax, it is very elaborate, and frankly would be a huge risk on the part of hoaxers.

    For the skeptics (always a necessary part of the community): I think some of your objections are foolish, frankly. Tissue samples have been sent to a scientific laboratory, and confirmed by that scientist. How can you say “no evidence, no attempt to bring in the scientific community.” If they’d revealed everything too soon clearly many would have screamed “PUBLICITY STUNT” and when the evidence is submitted through proper channels and results withheld until they undergo analysis and review it’s “WHERE’S THE EVIDENCE.”

    Seems to me this is happening by and large the right way, and I’m am extraordinarily excited to see what Dr. Ketchum comes up with.

  13. Hapa responds:

    I would love to see this evidence (if it is that) and both the news conference and documentary come out in my friggin lifetime!!!

  14. Richard888 responds:

    “We know that the Taxidermy.net thread is real.”

    I just went over to Taxidermy.net and searched for the terms ‘bigfoot’ and ‘sasquatch’ but did not see any threads that could be a good fit for the one described.

    The ones that did turn up are at the most 56% relevant and they are mostly jokes. In fact, the culture of Taxidermy.net seems different from how it is portrayed.

    The OP (as in original poster) mentioned that the thread was shut down. I understand ‘shut down’ to mean closed to more comments but still available and indexed by the local search engine.

    If the thread has not been deleted, can we be provided with a link?

  15. CDC responds:

    Pretty much all of us heard that Halloween 2010 podcast, and yes Dr Ketchum seemed very confident in her findings.

    I had contacted Dr Ketchum’s office 2 years ago when she had done DNA testing on samples sent to her office from Destination Truth from hairs found in the Himalayas. You can see her inteview of that on youtube, as the results were unknown non human primate.

    On the Halloween podcast, she had prominsed a paper on her findings for peer review. That paper was never presented and no reasons were given why not.

    Prior to that, Dr Ketchum had done an Coast to Coast AM hosted by George Knapp on 8/29/10.

    Both shows were done with David Paulides of the North American Bigfoot Search, who is a former police investigator who Mr Coleman knows much about.

    The problem I have with the story is, this Bear Hunter would have been at the very least, questioned by local authorities. Hunting bears illegally and killing animals crossing the road and leaving the bodies behind? Anyone who had information on this or was hiding information would have to let local authorities know. That includes Dr Ketchum.

    There should be a paper trail to follow…Erickson and the Olympic Project, Paulides and NABS, and Dr Ketchum, are all subject to follow the law and report any suspicious activity. The fact that was all done in secret doesn’t seem valid.

    Dr Ketchum is the only legitimate source in this story, the rest I would immediately throw out as BS.

    This story is easy to verify by just asking Dr Ketchum’s office. I called TX a little while ago, and no comment was given. Check for yourselves, DNA Diagnostics Incorporated, Timpson Texas.

  16. flame821 responds:

    The hunk of flesh, so human that it freaked out the DNA lab, adds credibility to the story. The OP says it’s a chunk of Bigfoot flesh from one the killed Bigfoots. Could it have been hoaxed? Possibly. However, someone would have had to have had access to a human cadaver and then sawed off a chunk of the thigh. How likely is that? Further, this would have had to have been a very strange human cadaver, one covered with hair. And the hair would have had to have been the exact same color of the hair of one of the Bigfoots that got shot.

    1] Pig flesh is often used as a stand in for human flesh, this is easy to come by. Even wild boar is fairly easy to come by and on gross visual inspection can seem eerily human.

    2] Cadavers really aren’t as hard to come by as some people seem to think. This is especially true to anyone in the medical or mortuary community. Add in animal research or pet suppliers and a whole spectrum of primates and exotic animals becomes available as well.

    3] Specifically addressing the “strange human cadaver, one covered with hair” comment. Obviously someone hasn’t been swimming in a while, because these strangely hairy (usually middle aged) beasts are always the ones that insist on wearing Speedos in public. You literally could shear them like a sheep and knit a sweater with it.

    And yes while my three points may seem far fetched, are they any more unbelievable than what we’re being asked to accept with absolutely no proof. Just because the original poster says he believes it doesn’t mean its true. Remember, “Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see”.

  17. 76sagi responds:

    We shall see….
    i doubt this story very much. As much as I’d like to see DNA evidence, there isn’t much here that is believable unless you disregard major portions of the events.

  18. Nominay responds:

    If this story isn’t true, then the top tier Bigfoot dudes are all mentally ill, and we’ll never find it. My wife says she hopes we don’t find him, and wishes that we would him leave him alone. She’s always right.

  19. otonabee responds:

    All these separate groups has me confused.

    The Erickson group, Olympic project and that Standing fellow and his group.

    Wish someone could do a breakdown on all these players and what they are claiming to have for evidence.

    A nice article describing all the groups and all their claims would be most welcome.

  20. semillama responds:

    Redrose999 hit the nail on the head. According to what’s been related so far, there’s more than enough material available for independent DNA analysis, which would be vital in any attempt to prove the species via genetics. Without an attempt to replicate Ketchum’s results, the evidence will still not be taken seriously.

  21. stickyum responds:

    Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty.
    Albert Einstein

    This event if true and the reprehensible cruelty in murdering these innocent animals for sport is revolting. People often talk about protecting these rare creatures, but in this case, talk is cheap! Where was the compassion?

  22. Redrose999 responds:

    @semillama

    Thank you. All they really need to do is hand over the samples to two other unrelated, unbiased labs and have them repeat the results, then officially publish it in a real science journal like Scientific American. They need to describe it as a new species under the name Sasquatch. That’s enough for the scientific community to take notice and to get money for more research. After that they can do what they want with the documentaries and such, but it needs to be classified, and described in published form before anyone takes it seriously.

    Until then, many folks will just see this as a bunch of folks making claims to back up some money making plot that will ultimately turn out to be another Bigfoot in the freezer.

  23. Cernovog responds:

    Semillama: DNA doesn’t work that way. Once you have a DNA sample, the first thing you do to analyze it is you use an enzyme to make tons and tons of copies. That one sample can be duplicated to make more than enough for any number of labs to conduct their own independent tests or sequencing.

  24. Redrose999 responds:

    @Cernovog

    They don’t need to send the DNA copies. They can just send bits of the supposed Sasquatch Flesh to different labs to extract their own DNA. From what I understand they had some substantial amounts of Sasquatch samples for study.

  25. airforce47 responds:

    Greetings,

    I have followed this story for some time without comment as I considered the whole thing a hoax. Now I’m not so sure.

    However, in CA it’s against the law to possess nongame animals:

    In that event, Sasquatch would be classified as a nongame mammal pursuant to Fish and Game Code section 4150. This section prohibits the take or possession of nongame mammals or parts thereof except as provided in the code or regulations adopted by the Fish and Game Commission. Since there are no code or regulations relating to Sasquatch, it would be a violation to possess any Sasquatch remains. Violations of Fish and Game Code section 4150 are punishable as misdemeanors.

    And it’s a violation of US Codes to transport human cadaver material across state lines for any other purpose other than lawful medical testing. This would include BF hoaxes.

    One thing I can’t figure out is how Tom Biscardi fits into all this? My best,

  26. mrdark responds:

    Once more, with feeling: no one has, or has had, possession of a bigfoot body. If they did, they’d be on the news in 10 minutes as soon as the highest bidder paid them their check with six zeroes on the end. No potential criminal charges would be a worry if you’re suddenly a millionaire with the scientific story of the century on your hands.

  27. mjm responds:

    Sounds like another fairy tale to me. Anyway, he lost me at “Pandemonium ensues” Really? What a joke.

  28. Paul78 responds:

    I can’t believe this guy is still trying to convince people after all the erroneous facts in his last letter, persistent beggar.

    My personal favourite is his list of ‘credibility’ with nothing but his word.

    I also like the fact that a bunch of experts freaked out at a piece of meat that looked human, seriously I’m sure these guys as scientists and used to handling a variety of materials wouldn’t have freaked out and besides they would have likely only been sent a small sample not that whole piece of meat? Then he adds that little touch by saying the Lab director is a veterinarian! So? Do veterinarians not get scared?

    Anyone can go online and with a quick search add details to a fake letter to make it look genuine, it’s lucky for us this guy isn’t very good at searching the correct facts.

  29. andyd responds:

    After the whole Johor hominid scam, I just can’t get excited until a body is recovered. This sounds like another scam.

  30. joedastudd responds:

    @RWRidley
    Canada is mentioned frequently on the other posts on the same topic (OP bigfoot bodies).
    It does sound extremely fishy given the timeline.

    I’d love to get a definitive date or even a print screen of the original Taxidermy.net thread.
    As it seems they deleted the thread and didn’t publicly archive it (they might have a backup containing the thread somewhere).

  31. lumberinggiant responds:

    I’m going to call BS on this one too. Although I find this story compelling, I just can’t see someone who is an avid hunter (aka someone who MUST know about Bigfoot whether they believe in their existence or not) shooting not just one, but two Bigfoots and leaving them where he shot them; then returning to get samples at a later date. He must have understood the scientific importance of such a specimen and what it would have been worth to the world.

  32. kidquid responds:

    I have thought a lot about this unfolding story and have to say that hopefully it will all come out eventually. Anyone who is completely convinced either way at this point is to me jumping to conclusions. But there is definitely something going on here. I would not be surprised at all if there is some truth to these stories. Still waiting for Ketchum’s paper.

  33. SanFran responds:

    “I’d love to get a definitive date or even a print screen of the original Taxidermy.net thread.”

    I checked for the so called thread, via the Wayback Machine. I might be using it wrong.. but I don’t show anything helpful to us.

    I remain skeptical.

  34. Cernovog responds:

    You guys realize it typically takes one or two years for a peer-reviewed scientific paper to be published, don’t you? While a paper may have been promised around Halloween of 2010, was it even written at that point or was she still collecting and analyzing data? If the paper hasn’t been written, expect to wait at least another year to see it published.

    This is not like writing a letter to Dear Abby. These things take a great deal of time. For a matter as heated and controversial as Bigfoot, she has to make sure everything is perfect, absolutely perfect or people will point at every little thing and accuse her of sloppy science.

    Look at the heated debate around the discovery of Homo floresiensis. You can expect Bigfoot to be far, far more controversial.

    I can tell you right now the fact they’re claiming the mitochondrial DNA is 100% human stinks of contamination. Either Bigfoot has a human mother somewhere in its ancestry or someone forgot to wear gloves. Which is more likely?

    While we do everything possible to prevent contamination, it still happens in the best of settings. Every once in a while a sample of human DNA comes out as “Tuna fish” and suddenly you realize you just wasted $1000 to find out what the lab tech had for lunch.

    Skeptics like David Daegling manage to make damning reviews of the work of Jeff Meldrum and Grover Krantz. They’ll make mince meat of Ketchum for her association with Tom Biscardi and Todd Standing regardless of what her evidence is. She’s already damaged goods.

  35. Massachusetts responds:

    I think we may be missing one salient point. The Bigfoot shootings aren’t necessarily relevant to the DNA evidence that Dr. Ketchum is working with. She was involved in a radio talk show interview in the recent past where she said she had DNA from hair samples and such, from multiple sources.

    I’m sorry if this may have been posted and discussed in the past, but it seems relevant now given the current rumors and such.

    If this Bigfoot shooting story is true (admittedly a very big “if”), it sounds like it was more like icing on the cake for DNA sampling (though tragic for the Bigfoot involved of course and we shouldn’t forget that.) And if the shooting story is false, it sounds like it doesn’t interfere with the DNA evidence story, since other sources were available to Dr. Ketchum’s team.

    And, according to her, the reason the announcements are taking so long is because the peer review process, especially for something so controversial and potentially ground breaking, is lengthy and rigorous. She and her team are, apparently, dotting all their I’s and crossing all their T’s, basically, to produce an outstanding scientific paper, which takes time, and further evidence won’t be discussed, presented or any claims made until that lengthy process is completed and the paper is published in a reputable scientific journal.

    She did say she believes she has proven the existence of Bigfoot, but although that sounds impressive, I don’t see how she can definitively say that unknown primate DNA is from Bigfoot specifically (the 8 foot tall bipedal primate of lore). Why not some other unknown primate, a small one that doesn’t match our conception of the creature? What’s the exacting scientific link to Bigfoot proper I wonder? I know people will protest, but if we are talking about absolute proof, I wonder how they can definitively link unknown DNA to a specific animal, if they just have hair samples from an unknown and unseen source animal? They didn’t discuss this in the interview. Perhaps someday it will be answered.

    I must say she sounds very professional and convincing. And perhaps the legal infighting is over this peer review question (if it’s actually happening.) Perhaps she wants to keep waiting until the peer review and publication is completed, and other people want to just go ahead and make findings known to the public. That would be a reasonable thing to argue about, and it wouldn’t demonize Dr. Ketchum either. She would be a pillar of prudence and good judgment to stick to her guns for science and to maintain high standards, if that were the case.

  36. Massachusetts responds:

    By the way, re: the link to Dr. Ketchum’s interview, she starts about an hour into the program, so you can move the slider bar to find her comments. They are worth listening too. I haven’t listened to the entire program yet but I plan too. It’s two hours long. After hearing her I am intrigued. Far more so than after reading the scenarios discussed in this thread (not intending to insult anybody, but this is straight from the horses mouth info from a principal, not gossip or hearsay, however well intended that gossip or hearsay is.)

    So, either Ketchum is a liar, or made a big mistake with the science, or she has discovered something very interesting and relevant to this field. I certainly hope for the latter. But as always, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, so for now we must all wait and see.

  37. Kronprinz_adam responds:

    OK, I think it is time to analyze the facts. Was there an unjustified Bigfoot killing? If so, hope it won’t happen again, and no other hunter attacks a sasquatch in that way. Now let us analyze the proofs, I hope the researchers can produce a proof and confirmed by independant labs. This has to be soon….(remember Malasya Bigfoot a couple of years ago? The issue lasted for months, they promised a website, a book but finally we got nothing).

  38. mastiff responds:

    DNA samples, irrelevant of how many, won’t prove anything. How many times have we heard that samples of unknown primate DNA have been isolated! Lots of times! What has happened? Nothing! The mainstream public doesn’t care until there is a body on the slab! I would shoot one if I saw one and I would be rich! I wouldn’t worry about legal repercussions because It would be hard to prosecute someone for killing something that does not exist.

  39. Particle Noun responds:

    @Massachusetts: Thank you for spelling out what I’ve been thinking so very very well. I think you’ve hit most of the nails on the head.

    In regards to Dr. Ketchum saying “bigfoot is real”, I think one thing we need to keep in mind is that they’ve been treating this forensically as much as possible, meaning many of the samples were taken as a result of witness sightings, which were documented, not just a random chunk of hair caught on a fence (although there may be that too). If the witness describes a very tall bipeadel creature, and the DNA confirms a primate of unknown type, and there are multiple witness statements with multiple samples all of which have a high degree of correlation, it is a reasonable conclusion to make that the witnesses were perhaps reasonably accurate in describing what they saw, which would be a creature resembling bigfoot.

    It’s my understanding that they’ve given preference in their sampling to those which have a solid forensic trail, for this very reason. Those samples which were collected using solid forensic guidelines were given priority, and thoroughly documented as part of the analysis.

    This is most likely why the paper is taking so long.

    Also, someone above questioned why someone used to seeing tissue samples would be afraid when they saw a sample they thought was human. The answer is clear. A normal pathologist or someone else who analyizes human tissue samples is most often going to get them from authorities, so they would have no reason to be fear the origin of the samples. If you get dead human tissue samples from some random person, it means there is some dead person out there, who had a chunck of thigh cut off, and it’s not the police who are asking you to identify it. You are then culpable for abetting a murder potentially. It’s not the sample itself that would have scared Dr. Ketchum, it’s the provenence of that sample, which was ostensibly from a hunter and not the authorities.

    But like the venerable Mass. said, regardless of the veracity of this chapter in this story, I think Dr. Ketchum’s work sounds very exciting.

    And Mastiff, what makes this different, potentially, is that it is a massive study of many samples, cross checked and compared to build up a profile of an unknown species. Analysis here and there of individual samples are worthless, but do enough, and do them well enough to build up a genetic profile which shows undeniable commonality across locations and time frames and you have something extremely significant.

  40. Know it all responds:

    Well, it’s well documented that human female primate researchers routinely tell of male chimpanzees, orangutans & baboons becoming attempting mating behavior with them, in some instances in fact having to be rescued by male co-workers. Females give off pheromones detected by the far greater olfactory senses of animals. The ancient Amerindian traditions in fact say that “Sasquatch like the smell of virgins”.

    Got a hunch here of what may possibly be the path of least resistance for more or less European Halotype similarity (Homo Sapiens/Cromagnon) in SOME samples of the mitochondrial DNA results. And still place the introduction many thousands of years ago? Particularly in light of primitive animistic beliefs contributing to less resistance?

    Archeological evidence suggests a Bering Land Bridge connection between current Alaska & Siberia of one thousand miles wide. So along with other gigantic Pleistocene Megafauna we have likely the more or less somewhat bipedal Gigantopithecus of China & the giant man-eating 12′ tall saggital crest form of the Yeti lone males driven out by the Alpha males or in small mated family pods bumbling their way into North America. The much weaker females have a higher mortality in childbirth & are easier prey for Cave Bears, Sabre-tooths, Dire Wolves, Panthera Atrox etc. thus leaving male lone Giganto & Yeti etc. with “eat, sleep, reproduce” drive.

    These creatures eventually encounter a much more numerous population density of pre-Archaic Mound Builder hunter/gatherer Indians, Clovis Culture & North European & Scandinavian proto Early Bronze Age colonies looting as much as a half a million tons of Michigan pit mine copper with pre-Archaic Mound Builder Indian trade labor for shipping & barging along the Ice Cap back to Europe, Africa & The Middle East along with pre-Druid/Stonehenge culture Tin mined in England.
    What is likely to occur when these lone male brown & black haired Megafauna bipedal animals encounter exposed bipedal, weak, easily obtained brown & black long haired bipedal Archaic Mound Builders, Clovis Culture, North European/Scandinavian traders, who like the later Phoenicians, brought women along on voyages for colonization and “other reasons”?

    Perhaps in most all cases the mating didn’t result in pregnancy, perhaps in a few cases it resulted in infertile offspring such as the mule, and perhaps as in the very rare case of fertile mules, the human-Giganto/Giant form of the Yeti whatever hybrid WAS fertile… resulting in what we have today in North America?

  41. Loren Coleman responds:

    Leaks, rumors, and speculations do the field no good. Proof and firm scientific findings will.

    As has been stated before, multiple results discussing a link to human DNA in a “Bigfoot” sample could be caused by faulty collection techniques that introduced human skin or hair cells into the samples.

    We need more that leaks.



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