Sasquatch Coffee

Massacre At Bluff Creek: Saturday Talk

Posted by: Loren Coleman on June 24th, 2008

The Western Bigfoot Society of Oregon is announcing they will have a talk this coming Saturday, June 28th, by Joe Beelart who will explain his theory on “Massacre At Bluff Creek.”

Beelart will base his ideas on recent photos released by MK Davis at the WBS meeting. The items he will be considering, among others, include an excavation, a pool of “blood”, and rifle marks on Patty.

Guests are welcome.

Specifics: Saturday June 28th 2008 ~ WBS Bigfoot Meeting Notice.

An informal no-host dinner (good food) will precede talks with an opportunity to socialize at 6 pm, the talk will be at 7 pm. Free admission…bring your friends.

Meeting will be at the usual location, the Home Plate, 8501 North Lombard, Portland, Oregon.

Come early to be sure and get a seat.

Joe Beelart has followed up on the above meeting notice with this email:

Absolutely No Inflammatory Words

Hello everyone:

We will not use any inflammatory words of any kind at Saturday night’s meeting, period.

Speculations will be based on driving times, possible wind conditions, how colors can be manipulated in PhotoShop and similar programs, etc.

Bob Gimlin has made very clear his responses to speculations made through Davis’ film analysis, the reputed Ohio meetings, and at the IBS March meeting.

I will tell you exactly what Bob Gimlin told me.

If someone wants their name in an inflammatory press release, they can do the talking.

I had cause to personally talk with the Del Norte County DA’s office and I will not do anything that may associate me with legal proceedings or investigations.

Is this message clear? No inflammatory words of any kind allowed in my presentation.

Yours,

Joe Beelart

About Loren Coleman
Loren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct). Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013.


21 Responses to “Massacre At Bluff Creek: Saturday Talk”

  1. scmarlowe responds:

    With respect, Joe, Don’t you think that we’ve heard enough hearsay?

    Why not let Bob Gimlin speak for himself and answer questions publically and on tape/digital so that another round of “he said this – I didn’t say that?” is avoided?

    “I had cause to personally talk with the Del Norte County DA’s office and I will not do anything that may associate me with legal proceedings or investigations.”

    That part, at least, is good to hear.

  2. scmarlowe responds:

    Given the accusations of “inflamation” it is appropriate to address recent actions and intentions:

    Almost all of my reasoning behind issuing the now famous “Humboldt Letter” is based on discoveries, of which Mk Davis’ latest work is only part, and includes other material — most of which has been covered on Cryptomundo in many prior discussion threads and not on this issue alone.

    In the rush to criticize, obscure and discredit my intent and the material regarding this affair by those with a vested interest in its ramification, and in my own haste to issue the aforementioned letter that started the latest round of arguments, a misconception was created through my poor use of words wherein John Johnsen and MK Davis seem to be implicated in some sort of cover up regarding the P-G film.

    This is far from my intent and meaning and the “implication” couldn’t be more untrue.

    As facilitators in the development of new evidence (however equivocal) these two gentlemen deserve a medal for their work – not the ridicule they have endured. They, nor I, were party to any scheme to obscure the material in question. Nor was my letter intended to “inflame” anyone (although it was clearly understood that special interests would bristle, fret and kibutz about the content).

    Indeed Davis’ and Johnsen’s work is on a par with that of Igor Bourtsev’s research into Zana and her son Khwit revealing their human status from exhumed skeletal remains. Bourtsev’s discoveries also figure into my belief that Patty is/was indeed a member of the human genus (the species thereof may, however, be open to question).

    Joe Beelart, in addition to MK, and others have pointed out some important inconsistancies in the “Official Account” of the incidents associated with the Patterson – Gimlin time line of events here on Cryptomundo and elsewhere. Indeed, comments attributed to Mr. Gimlin appearing on another website also raise some questions and appear to confirm elements of MK’s interpretation of the events associated with October 1967.

    However, in making premature statements, in public, about his findings without properly researching the perceived implications MK Davis (who is a basically honest guy) triggered this entire regrettable fiasco through his desire to “get the word out” quickly but without the proper backup of the “facts” that he believes are in evidence.

    John and I were “broadsided,” as you probably know, by MK’s revelations. That type of premature open discussion is neither proper science nor was it supported by the appropriate forensic interview procedure that should have been performed to support MK’s visual image interpretations. In that regard, I must repudiate his mistake.

    As far as I know, John had no hand in MK’s decision to “go public” with his findings and he was just as miffed about it as was I.

    There is a great deal more to “the rest of the story” than can be effectively covered in this venue. In time, I am confident, full disclosure will occur and the appropriateness of my decision to write to the authorities will become abundantly clear.

  3. cryptidsrus responds:

    What exactly does Joe Beelart mean by “inflammatory words?” Pardon my naivete.

    I guess accusations of “murder?” If so I get the warning. I do agree Gimlin should speak.

    Oh, joy—more theorizing—(sarcasm).

  4. springheeledjack responds:

    Nah, think I’ll pass…we have wasted far TOOOOOOOOO much time on this idea. Would rather spend the afternoon in the woods hunting for BF…better use of my time and everyone else’s.

  5. graybear responds:

    Although I can’t tell you precisely what Bob Gimlin’s words will be, I believe that I can approximate them. I believe he will say something very like:
    There was no day before massacre.
    There were no shots fired at Patty.
    Any problems there might be with the time line are due to excitement and not paying all that much attention to elapsed time. How many real people do?
    There is something wrong with the people who came up with this scat.
    Go away.

  6. Fishing J responds:

    This is my first post on cryptomundo, a site I have respected full heartedly for the past few years. I started looking into the unexplained phenomenoms of unexplained creatures for a few years now. I read this site every single day, and I am completely disgusted by the way the M.K. Davis theories have taken over talk on Bigfoot, Sasquatch. There are many other things taking place. Enough of the Patterson situation, what about now? I want proof of now. M.K. can fantasize, I want to have proof for others to realize. I have experiences with an unknown creature, to the likes of a Bigfoot, and really don’t care to hear assumptions only proof. M.K. seems to be a stew already burned.

  7. Judy Green responds:

    I don’t think it has ever been definitively proven that Zana was human nor that the other skull involved was her son, Khwit. And, even it it had been, what does that have to do with the being in the P/G film? Zana was allegedly an almas while Patty is a Bigfoot/Sasquatch. Two entirely different creatures.

  8. CamperGuy responds:

    This is just silly.

    Way past time to move on.

  9. DWA responds:

    WHY DOES ANYONE WANT TO DEVOTE ONE MORE WORD TO THIS?

    (Whoops.)

    There’s an animal out there, people. FIND IT. I’ll cheerlead, promise.

  10. Loren Coleman responds:

    The first meaning of “massacre” is, “The act or an instance of killing a large number of humans indiscriminately and cruelly.” The second meaning is, “The slaughter of a large number of animals.”

    I passed along the news of the Western Bigfoot Society’s meeting through the use of Joe Beelart’s own way of talking about his upcoming talk.

    Interestingly, M.K. Davis, John Johnsen, Scott Marlowe and Joe Beelart continue to use “massacre,” but as shown in the first definition shared, there is a subtle reason behind that. The ongoing thesis from Davis involves all of us debating his thoughts that Bigfoot is “human,” “white-skinned,” wear “braids,” have “ponytails,” and that there was a massive killing of several Bigfoot at Bluff Creek before the famed filming on October 20, 1967.

    Don’t kill me, the messenger, for telling you that this is what they are saying, for this poisoning of the Patterson-Gimlin event has quietly been seeded since 2006, in M.K. Davis’s works. Whispered in little public caches of people after presentations, in email exchanges, and “thoughtful” public groupings, a real conspiracy has occurred to put this “killing field” spin on things, without regard to any reality-testing about this “theory.”

    So, yes, I have been very overt about bringing forth all the muddled and muddy details into the light of day, to call to account for the alleged evidence and for them to defend the “massacre” theory and thesis.

    If this means keeping their feet to the fire, to note how the ongoing, truly unsupportable theory is still being pushed on various Bigfoot groups, in supposedly unnoticed meetings, so be it.

    Remember, just because we ignore something doesn’t mean it has gone away.

    The Bigfoot researcher Blogsquatcher made an interesting observation on May 22, 2008, which still sums it up:

    “You’ll ultimately have to decide for yourselves how you feel about [M. K. Davis’ speculations]. I will leave you with this thought though — for more than 40 years, nothing has been able to diminish the impact of the [Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot] Film. But maybe this grand conspiracy theory will.”

    I think we have to be careful to not let that happen by making certain there is a clear-headed airing of this business, not an avoiding of it.

    Loren Coleman
    Portland, Maine
    June 25, 2008

  11. squatchdetective responds:

    Fact is Mr. Marlowe, Johnsen on 5/15/08 promised here on Cryptomundo full disclosure….

    May 15th, 2008 : ” …so I cannot renege on my promise of full disclosure..”

    Then Johnsen releases this the next day:

    May 16th, 2008 : “A preliminary answer from MK regarding this current controversy yielded some indication that he is NOT planning any mind blowing announcements as some earlier comments here have indicated”….

    May 16th, 2008: ” My fear is that MK would prematurely release this info, leading to a second round of name calling and disrespect for a man so much dedicated to finding the truth in all of this.”

    Then on May 22nd, 2008 Johnsen releases the information on the “Massacre” or whatever kids are calling it these days.

    Fact is MK Davis did not broadside you. Johnsen was angry at MK for talking publicly about the alleged gunshot to Patty’s leg. So Johnsen broadsided MK Davis, by publicly displaying the full “theory” here on Cryptomundo.

    This is testimony given from both MK Davis and John Johnsen themselves on Squatchdetective Radio and the written prose found here on Cryptomundo.

  12. scmarlowe responds:

    Mr. Snell, Don’t PRESUME to know the facts as regards my surprise over MK’s “revelations.”

    Since your show was not balanced (i.e. I wasn’t invited to the party so that I could express my position and perspective on the events), you DON’T know everything about the issue and the pertinent background.

    Thus, you aren’t in a position to put words in my mouth or spin the events accurately to suit your “editorial slant.”

  13. gavinf responds:

    While everyone is tired of this story, I think Mr. Coleman’s updating us is important. From a purely historical standpoint, when Bigfoot is finally identified(which I have no doubt he will), this will be an important part of the search.

    Not because there is anything to these pathetic charges, but because it will show that even with a “muddying of the waters” like this, it doesn’t change the fact that continuing the efforts are worthwhile.

    As to Mr Marlowe’s contention that he wasn’t trying to “inflame” the situation, didn’t he call the authorities?

  14. vampchick21 responds:

    Oh for the love of…..

    Post proof for everyone to see publicly and make their own conclusions as to the validity or insanity of it all or be quiet. Bottom line is that everything I have read surrounding this particular ‘theory’ comes across as, to quote the Immortal Homer Simpson, bullplop. BULLPLOP! And this constant “Just wait! Proof is coming! It’ll all come out!” screams that none actually exists that can survive rational scrutiny for longer than 2 minutes.

    That is all.

  15. subrosa responds:

    Further comment only serves to enlarge Mr. Marlowe’s self-importance, and further his ‘fifteen minutes of fame’.

    Surely the fact that he sent the letter to the wrong County Prosecutors’ office speaks volumes.

  16. squatchdetective responds:

    Mr. Marlowe….don’t assume I am Mr. Snell, this is Mr. Kulls. Humbolt – Del Norte…ah what’s the difference?

    I am not assuming anything…listen to their interviews. Needless to say they are in the agreement with the rest of us, with your actions.

    I am not putting words into your mouth only repeating what you have written and again based on testimony by Johnsen & Davis. The only slant here was your pathetic attempt at getting your name and credit in MK’s work.

    How is my show one sided, when I gave both Mr. Johnsen and Mr. Davis the air time? It wasn’t until the little DA caper, that we even knew of your involvement and from Mr. Johnsen, your involvement other than lending an ear to Mr. Davis, was minuscule. So frankly your input into the theory, other than writing letters to DAs, (over non-provable claims, over worrying about your complicity in the alleged killing of multiple Sasquatch, which is the most lamest, and most legally groundless excuse I’ve ever heard.) your input was not needed, as you really had nothing new or revealing to contribute except instigating this matter further.

    So stop acting like MK Davis broadsided you, when you did the biggest broadside of them all.

    PS…Don Monroe TRIPPED ON A ROCK and broke his arm. Not passed out over a magma vent like you had suggested. Not a slant, just his testimony.

  17. squatchdetective responds:

    And folks I agree …time to move on!!!

  18. Tamarack responds:

    Some of us, and dare I say most of us are trying to move on, but those who think that there is some shred of validity in these wacked out stories keep bringing it back.

    And I think that it is only right to keep swatting at this pesky fly until we finally knock it down somehow.

  19. Andrew Minnesota responds:

    I’ll give M.K. that medal when he actually does something to earn it, but right now he hasn’t even earned a merit badge. Aced creative writing perhaps…

  20. PhotoExpert responds:

    Ok, Ok, I’m awake. (Yawn) Now what is it that is so important that you needed to interrupt my slumber? What? You don’t say, another talk on the Massacre Theory? (Yawn) And you woke me up for that bit of news? Am I interested in attending? (sarcastically stated)No I have another meeting scheduled with the UFO community. There will be a discussion on how wearing their patented tin foil hats, actually attracts UFOs. Or was I dreaming?

    No, I wouldn’t waste my time going to either talk. It is really not a talk or discussion when you can not offer a differing opinion to the opinion being offered. That is called one sided or a monologue. I think I’ll pass on this “great” opportunity. I have more important things to do. Where was I? Oh yes, back to the more important things, like sleep.

    Thanks for waking me up but no thanks!

    Actually Loren, I do appreciate the heads up. I might as well not throw away my stick just yet. I thought the horse was definitely dead and well on it’s way to a merciful decomposition. But it appears, there are those out there still beating the dead horse and I may have to be oncall and join in with facts against such ludicrous theories. Someone give me a page if it rears it’s ugly head.

    Back to bed!

  21. jerrywayne responds:

    Right now, I do not care about the truth of Mr. Davis’ allegations. I’m more interested in the origin of his “massacre” scenario. I can only think of two avenues that could lead him to his assertions.

    1. His assertions and scenario originated from his imagination. If this is the case, we need not look twice at his story.

    2. His assertions and scenario are based on hearsay, rumor, or witness accounts. If this is the case, Mr. Davis needs to state his sources, or at least acknowledge his sources off the record. If he has sources, then further investigation is warranted.

    I’m not yet ready to write off Mr. Davis and company as some gang of mischief-makers out to defame Patterson, Gimlin, and their Bigfoot.
    (Which is not the same as believing their story).

    Two historical notes worth a ponder: In 1958 (I think I’m right about the year), very large human-like footprints began to show up in northern California. At this point, “bigfoot” and sasquatch were not firmly linked yet. Bob Titmus and another fellow were quite sure the tracks were made by a singular “wild” Native American, of very large size (and feet). They even reported a backstory, in which this “Indian” had been chained years earlier by his family, out of fear, and the child giant broke free and became feral (and the maker of large human tracks in the wild).

    Also, it should be recalled, shortly after Patterson made his film, he gave an interview in which he said that he and Gimlin believed there was a family of sasquatch at Bluff Creek, but they surmised that the family had left the area.

    These historic notes don’t verify Mr. Davis’ account, of course. I only bring them up to illustrate that bigfoot phenomena is a little more complex than sometimes presented.



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