Sasquatch Coffee


The Enigma of the Talking British Columbia Sasquatches

Posted by: John Kirk on May 17th, 2006

One of the things I find most perplexing about sasquatch stories from British Columbia and particularly about the ones that emanate from the Harrison Hot Springs area is that sasquatch apparently have the faculty of speech. Now, I don’t mean they can simply howl growl or grunt, I mean they can talk in known languages.

Some readers may have heard the Sierra sounds of purported sasquatch vocalizations recorded by Alan Berry and Ron Moorehead about three decades ago. On these recordings one hears what are supposedly sasquatches apparently communicating with each other in some sort of sasquatch language or recognizable (to them) sounds. The conversations are quite animated and even excitable in tone. However, they do not speak any known form of human language.

All of these stories of talking sasquatch in British Columbia come from the aboriginal people in the area of Chehalis. Take for instance Seraphine Long who told her story to John W. Burns, the father of sasquatchery in British Columbia. She claims that she was kidnapped by a male sasquatch who put tree gum over her eyes so that she could not see where he was taking her. The sasquatch communicated in a known language (no one knows which aboriginal dialect) for a year. After a year Long says she told the sasquatch that she missed her family and wanted to return. I find it amazing that anyone would take a year to miss their family especially when one has been kidnapped, but that is not the issue we are discussing presently.

I believe Long is from the Chehalis people and so spoke to the sasquatch in this dialect. It apparently understood her so if it did not speak to her, at least it understood what she was talking about for soon after she intimated she wanted to be released, Long’s eyes were covered with tree gum and she was brought back to the edge of her people’s encampment and set free.

Now if a sasquatch which understand human language isn’t enough to make this story amazing, Long says that shortly after she was released she gave birth to a baby, but it did not survive for long.  The inference here is that the baby was part sasquatch. She was with a sasquatch for a year so there is no possibility that she was impregnated by a human, but rather by a sasquatch. If that baby’s remains actually exist, and it is a true human sasquatch hybrid, then one wonders why no one has ever examined them to see if there are any features deviant from those of a normal human being.

There is also the story of Victor Charlie who was out hunting with his dog in the vicinity of Chehalis, when he saw a being in appearance like that of moderately hairy 12 year-old boy. As Charlie approached, the boy hid itself in a tree trunk and the dog set about trying to flush him out. Charlie, for some bizarre reason known only to himself, took a shot at the boy in the tree and managed to inflict a wound.

At this point, according to Charlie, a huge (over seven feet tall) hair covered woman comes out of the bushes and asks Charlie in the Douglas dialect. “Why have you wounded my friend?”

Charlie realizes she is a sasquatch and is absolutely aghast that it can speak. I find this odd as many First Nations people regard the sasquatch tribe as a race of indigenous people like themselves, but taller and hairier. I find it odd that Charlie was bemused that they had the faculty of speech considering they were allegedly also First Nations people.

The female sasquatch did not linger long for she scooped up the wounded boy and carried him off into the bush while Charlie and his dog beat a hasty retreat from the scene. This and the Seraphine Long story date back to the early days of the 20th century. In Charlie’s case, he is able to identify the dialect as the Douglas dialect which was and I believe is still spoken by the inhabitants of Port Douglas at the head of Harrison Lake.

Now, Port Douglas has a story all of its own in regard to sasquatches. In 1941 the white inhabitants at Harrison Hot Springs were surprised to see many canoes streaming down the lake from the north. When these canoes pulled ashore, the whites identified the people aboard as members of the Port Douglas band. When asked why they had all come down to Harrison Hot Springs in such a hurry, the Port Douglas spokesman told the whites that they had fled their village because it had been invaded by a sasquatch. This sasquatch couldn’t or didn’t want to speak the Port Douglas dialect, so not knowing its intentions the aboriginal people hightailed it in their canoes.

In researching sasquatches in British Columbia and Alberta, I have never seen another report of talking sasquatches like the ones that emanate from around Harrison Hot Springs. The only other report that mentions sasquatch speech is that of Albert Ostman, but the sasquatches in his story don’t speak a human language but one apparently of their own.

Some would say what about the sasquatches who communicate telepathically with people? I say give me a break. If you believe that I have a nice rubber room waiting for you along with the latest in straitjacket fashion. It is hard enough resolving the biological sasquatch so I do not believe in clouding the matter over with the notion of a paranormal or “psychic” sasquatch. Others will say what about the sasquatches in Tennessee that allegedly have been habituated by humans and speak to them in some sort of language. All I have to say to that is, these events have allegedly been taking place for 50 years and yet there is not one photo, movie, video or sound recording obtained in all that time? Enough said on that.

I do not know what to do about the talking sasquatches of Harrison Hot Springs. They perplex me. I do not know if either Seraphine Long’s or Victor Charlie’s stories are true. John W. Burns did, and he was not exactly a gullible guy. Burns thought these people to be honest and decent. I did not know them so I am unable to comment on their character and therefore must rely on Burns’ evaluation of them.

In the meantime, the talking sasquatches of British Columbia will remain a mystery until their language code is cracked.

John KirkJohn Kirk – has written 121 posts on this site.
One of the founders of the BCSCC, John Kirk has enjoyed a varied and exciting career path. Both a print and broadcast journalist, John Kirk has in recent years been at the forefront of much of the BCSCC’s expeditions, investigations and publishing. John has been particularly interested in the phenomenon of unknown aquatic cryptids around the world and is the author of In the Domain of the Lake Monsters (Key Porter Books, 1998). In addition to his interest in freshwater cryptids, John has been keenly interested in investigating the possible existence of sasquatch and other bipedal hominids of the world, and in particular, the Yeren of China. John is also chairman of the Crypto Safari organization, which specializes in sending teams of investigators to remote parts of the world to search for animals as yet unidentified by science. John travelled with a Crypto Safari team to Cameroon and northern Republic of Congo to interview witnesses among the Baka pygmies and Bantu bushmen who have sighted a large unknown animal that bears more than a superficial resemblance to a dinosaur. Since 1996, John Kirk has been editor and publisher of the BCSCC Quarterly which is the flagship publication of the BCSCC. In demand at conferences, seminars, lectures and on television and radio programs, John has spoken all over North America and has appeared in programs on NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, TLC, Discovery, CBC, CTV and the BBC. In his personal life John spends much time studying the histories of Scottish Clans and is himself the president of the Clan Kirk Society. John is also an avid soccer enthusiast and player.


43 Responses to “The Enigma of the Talking British Columbia Sasquatches”

  1. Tabitca responds:

    Most animals communicate with each other and us by showing of teeth, sounds etc., but few of them have the vocal chords that are suitable to pronounce real speech. Hence apes being taught sign language. People often imagine that an animal is vocalising a word..my daughter swears the cat shouts mum when I came home lol, (if it could speak it would be shouting feed me). So I wonder how much of this is false memory? We can all convince ourselves we have heard or seen something and believe it is true and could pass a lie detector test.
    I am not convinced an animal or hominid would have vocal chords developed enough for understandable speech. As for telepathy, well send me a message when it happens and then I’ll believe(but only after I have scientifically measured it)

  2. Loren Coleman responds:

    Even souvenir representations of pre-1950s “Sasquatch” sometimes have them appearing to look more like another tribal group of Native Canadians, just bigger and hairier, than the “modern” Sasquatch and Bigfoot of the post-1950s world.

    Cultural? Temporal? Regional?

    Has there been one modern report of Sasquatch in BC using a Native Canadian language?

  3. Ole Bub responds:

    Good Morning John….talking sasquatches seem perfectly logical to me….the mountain folks in the Arkansaw speak several dialects too…

    Seriously….I do think it is interesting the Native Americans think of sasquatch as indigenous peoples…perhaps Kathy Strain has some comments in this regard?

    “Apelike” never occured to me in either of my sightings….they appear much more humanlike…JMHO

    seeing is believing….

    ole bub and the dawgs

  4. dontgd responds:

    I had a bad flashback reading this line:

    “Victor Charlie who was out hunting with his dog in the vicinity of Chehalis”

    and I wasn’t even in Vietnam.

    Don

  5. SaruOtoko responds:

    I’ve heard that some of chimpanzees have been taught simple words like “cup” is this true? If they can do it, why not a Sasquatch?

  6. Craig Woolheater responds:

    Are you saying that some chimpanzees have been taught to speak english? or that they have been taught sign language? Do you have a reference for the speaking chimps?

  7. Tabitca responds:

    A thought struck me afterwards that Long could have using this story to cover the real origins of her baby? Also the length of time she was gone may not have been a year,again memory distorts time. This doesn’t mean to say she didn’t believe the story herself, for instance if she had suffered some trauma,as we can convince our selves of things especially if we put the truth to the back of our minds.Sorry it’s my natural instinct to be sceptical about this tale.

  8. Tabitca responds:

    afraid not Craig -chimps anatomy makes it virtually impossible for them to articulate english language. they have been taught sign language and lexicons and even using the computer. Unless there has been some major breakthrough, I don’t think that has changed.

  9. Chymo responds:

    Without a hyoid bone and a mutated voice box, like that of a human, Sasquatch has no chance of even mimicking human speech. If anatomical descriptions of Sasquatch are correct, it’s jaw is apelike & the shape of its jaw & neck preclude a human-like vocal cord structure. I could go into more detail about this, but I’ll save it.

    For a long time it was argued that even highly sophisticated human relatives, the Neanderthal, did not have the ability for truly human speech.. that is until a Neanderthal hyoid bone was found. SO, perhaps, at the risk of taking speculation too far, perhaps the human mutated vocal cord arrangement developed much earlier in our ancestors’ history & was shared by other hominids in the line. But I doubt it. And even if it did, it wouldn’t make it more likely that Sasquatch shares the development, since it apparently is a rather distant relative, given its morphological differences.

    Stories of talking Sasquatch are marginally less crazy than paranormal, inter-dimensional Sasquatch, imho. But not by much.

  10. lamarkable responds:

    A human had to be long deprived of female company of his own species to produce a hybrid by voluntarily mating with a female Bigfoot. Dwelling on the circumstances of this produces some disturbing visuals or some fairly humourous ones prone to self produced cheap jokes which I will keep to myself.
    How well has anthropology documented the belief systems of these Native Americans? A great deal of assumptions must fall into place to make this a credible folkloric tale if there is such a thing . Granted it is very interesting possibility. What I find interesting that in certain quarters there is a tradition related to quasi-human competitors for resources, that is related to the biblical story of Gog and Magog, kept isolated by “barrier” that appears to be psychlogically, perhaps physiologically set by intent. The story goes that some try to do an end run, if you will, around this “barrier” but that when resources dwindle, it will be overcome. I have an enormous amount of respect for tribal knowledge carried forward in an oral tradition. English speaking Bigfoot, based on cultural indications, is unlikely.

  11. jayman responds:

    One of the necessary conditions for human speech is having a descended larynx – that is, the larynx (voice box) must detach from the back of the nasal cavity and drop into the throat. A chimpanzee or newborn human baby has an undescended larynx and cannot produce articulate speech sounds. Many anthropologists think that upright posture, with the head being positioned atop, rather than in front of the neck, was the key development that caused the larynx to descend, by changing the anatomy of the base of the skull, jaws, and throat. So if the sasquatch is upright, it may have a descended larynx and be able in principle to make speech-like sounds. Of course, this does not necessarily mean they actually have a language.

  12. SaruOtoko responds:

    I could have sworn that I saw a television show on discovery where they were interviewing this couple that kept chimps and they had this one female that could say simple words… all I remember hearing it say was “cup.” Then again, this was like 9 years ago, and I could be wrong. The chimp wasn’t speaking sentences or anything, just very poorly spoken single words.

  13. U.T. Raptor responds:

    At least one chimp was taught a few simple words, iirc, but it had trouble saying even those…

  14. Jack D. responds:

    Recently, I saw a documentary about a tribe (I forget where) of people that spoke in clicks an pops. Their vocal chords seemed to be used to make some sounds, but much of their language was spoken using tongue clicks and pops. Although that doesn’t seem to be what is being discussed here. Just pointing out that vocal chords may not be entirely necessary for a spoken language.

  15. Jeremy_Wells responds:

    One thing that we must consider here too is the possibility that these Sasquatch do not represent the stereotypical Patterson-esque neo-giant, but rather some other hominid variety (i.e neanderthal, homo erectus, etc.). Granted the seven foot tall female encountered by Victor Charlie would seem to indicate a neo-giant, but, again, maybe not.

    As mentioned above by Chymo (comment # 9) Neanderthal hyoid bones have been found and, as noted by jayman (comment #11) others believe that the bipedal posture led to the development of a detached larynx.

    If this were the case, it is not that much of a stretch to assume that hominids could learn some basic human speech. After all, it is not a stretch to assume that these hominids are at least as intelligent as gorillas and, as Koko has shown us, cross species communication even of abstract concepts is not unheard of.

    As for the comments about cross-breeding mentioned by Iamarkable (#10), in the case of Seraphim Long mentioned above the female was human and the male was sasquatch, not vice versa. Also, at the risk of leading this conversation into the realm of the bawdy, I remember a college history professor who told us that, while looking at old village and court records from Scotland he was amazed at the many cases of lonely shepherds caught “durante coitus” with their sheep. Given this particular human predilection (odd though it is), the possibility of intercourse between a lonely male human and a female bigfoot isn’t such a laughable concept.

  16. twblack responds:

    Sure wish we could have gotten someone to take a photo or 2 with this story. But anyway If BF has been around for years and years I would think that it might be possible to communicate somehow with humans who have been in contact with BF for several years like the ones in the story. But the ESP thing I agree rubber room for them people.

  17. kscryptoholic responds:

    I think it is important to give native American/Canadian stories of Sasquatch some creedence. They have lived with these creatures for atleast 10 thousand years and have had many encounters with them. Their stories of talking Bigfoots does seem a little far fetched, but it isn’t odd to first nations folks, who think many animals have some form of speech or ability to communicate with humans. It’s obvious that these creatures are intelligent and most likely communicate in some form to each other.
    In an interesting note, I had a long conversation with a member of one the tribes inhabiting western Washington state. He said his elders did think of Bigfoots as some form of human, but thought they were cursed. My friend approached the elders after losing a horse in the mountains and finding its body the next day partly dismembered and 25 feet up a pine tree. The elders told him it was Sasquatch that did the deed and that he show respect and avoid that area in the future. His tribe has some kindred connection with these creatures and respected and feared them.

  18. Doug responds:

    On another website similar to this one, this subject caused such an uproar that some were forced to leave due to their language towards those who believed that sasquatch does actually talk in his own language. I do not want to hurt anyone’s feelings on the matter, but the idea is far fetched to me. I do believe that it is possible they mimic human speech they have overheard, and do give sounds that convey meaning to one another. I seriously doubt theirs is a developed language with syntax and grammar. If they do exist and are sudied, this issue may someday come to light one way or the other.

  19. Senor Chubba responds:

    If they exist and have avoided detection this long- is speech really any more far fetched?

  20. shovethenos responds:

    Couple scattered points:

    - For anyone interested in this topic go to the Sierra Sounds website and listen to some of the samples there, especially the “Samurai Chatter” sample. (I think its called that because parts of it sounds like the guttural Japanese you hear in samurai movies.) If the recordings are authentic (and some experts have allegedly said they are) and it is actually from a Sasquatch I would tend to believe they would have the capacity for at least simple speech.

    - A lot of the other vocalization recordings (again, if they are authentic) show a very surprising range – even to the point where they seem to be mimicking the sophisticated vocalizations of other animals. (Of course skeptics here will say the vocalizations ARE from other animals, but some of these vocalizations occur with the novel “Sasquatch” vocalizations and would appear to be from the same source.)

    - Other vocalizations seem to be sophisticated, even though they sound like “gibberish” or a “tape recorder being played backwards” – sophisticated enough that if the physiology producing them were applied to human language it might be reproduced successfully.

    - Some of the vocalizations, especially certain angry ones – seem to sounds very similar to chimpanzee vocalizations, so you really get the sense that these are being produced by a related, though different, animal.

    - I believe the “Sierra Sounds” recordings were made in the Pacific Northwest US, so the “talking Sasquatch” might be more of a “whole Pacific Northwest” phenomena than British Columbia phenomena.

    - Regarding the interbreeding – refer to the Zana story that happened in or near Russia – that’s alleged to have been successful breeding with a cryptid mother and human fathers. Of course “Zana” seems to have been a much more human-like cryptid. And her children survived – possibly there are offspring around today with some of her genetic material.

    Fascinating topics, especially if the recordings are authentic.

  21. shovethenos responds:

    Forgot one thing:

    - Some of the “tape recorder being played backwards” and “gibberish” vocalizations have been reported from other areas of the country. I think BFRO has some reports like these from Maryland reported by hunters. So if that is the case all Sasqautch may have similar vocalization capabilities. (Assuming everyhing’s authentic again.)

  22. Chymo responds:

    Oh, Sasquatch is capable of a high degree and range of vocalisations, of that there is no doubt. But, that’s rather different from actual speech.

    There are a lot of videos going around right now, on YouTube & Google Video, of animals, particularly cats, that make sounds that are quite human-like. One cat makes a particularly funny yowl that sounds like he’s saying “Oh, Don piano!” – kid thee not. They’re out there, check ‘em out. Very funny, & extremely surprising.

    Now, would you say, just because these noises *sound* like speech, that the animal making them is capable of true language? No, of course not.

    You have to factor in the anthropocentric attitude of most humans. We tend to anthropomorphosise animals – that is, to imagine animals are like us – & this can be a real deceptive factor in studying not only the Sasquatch, but potential extra-terrestrial lifeforms as well.

  23. Tabitca responds:

    To add further perplexity I’m afraid not answer. Hope this link works.

    We apparently have interbred before.

  24. jayman responds:

    Regarding comments 5,12 and 13, chimps have been taught to mimic a couple of spoken human words like “cup” (and I think mama and papa) but they produce them differently than we do, I think actually while inhaling. Now, it’s an open question I think, if language could be produced in a different way than our way. Birds like parrots can reproduce human speech very well with an entirely different anatomy.

  25. shovethenos responds:

    Chymo-

    There’s no doubt that there’s a lot of animals out there that are capable of astounding abilities of vocalization and mimickry.

    But – if that capability is coupled with the intellectual capacity to assign meanings to sounds and then string those meaningful sounds together to convey messages you have actual language. So if Sasquatches (a) have this ability to make sophisticated vocalizations and (b) they have the intellectual ability to assign meanings to particular sounds and string those sounds together they should be capable of at least simple speech.

    If the recordings are authentic we can be pretty sure of (a) – they exhibit the ability to make sophisticated vocalizations and also to mimic sophisticated vocalizations. As far as (b) is concerned it is quite likely that the intellectual ability is within their reach. After all, Koko the gorilla has a sign language vocabulary that runs into hundreds of words, she just lacks the physiology for speech. I think most people that accept the existence of cryptid primates would estimate their intelligence to be at least on par with gorillas, and many I hazard to guess would place them on par with orangutans, chimps, and some would even say approaching human intelligence.

    So if the recordings are authentic I would say it is quite possible that they are capable of rudimentary speech.

  26. Chymo responds:

    I would estimate Bigfoot intelligence to be far greater than a chimp, shovethenos. I would estimate them to be on a much higher scale than any other primate save humans, based on witness reports of their behaviour, & their successful avoidance of humans for our entire modern era. If Koko the gorilla has an apparent human mental age of a 4 year old autistic child, then let’s say Bigfoot might be a 6 year old.

    That says nothing to their use of language, per se. Here we get into semiology.

    It is highly likely they could be taught some form of language, but it doesn’t follow that they already use it. That sounds counterintuitive, but we are laboring under the assumption that the development of language must follow the pattern of human language use. That’s not the case.

    While all primate brains apparently have structures that are similar to those in human brains associated with speech & language, it appears that it hasn’t been necessary for primates to develop sophisticated languages as an evolutionary tactic for survival. It was for us, for reasons that still remain largely unclear. Judging by Bigfoot’s manner of living, I don’t see the evolutionary pressure for language. He doesn’t need a language to survive, in other words.

    The hooting & chattering reported by hundreds of witnesses & reproduced on the Sierra CD are obviously a communication system akin to those used by known primate species. Again, it’s sophisticated, & transmits information, but whether it can be classed language is questionable.

    In any case, the contradictions and unlikelihoods apparent in the reports about Bigfoot using human language should stop any lengthy theorising before it starts.

    We’re asked to believe a guy tried to shoot what looked to him like a 12-year old human child covered in hair (when many other hunters have reported an inability to shoot a Bigfoot due to its eery similarity to humans), & that a person kidnapped by a Bigfoot didn’t get homesick for a year. We ought to be asking, are these reports legitimate, rather than wasting energy on assumptions? I’m sorry, I’m just brutally clinical in my view of this kind of thing.

    I must add, though, that I believe strongly that the Sasquatch has some form of culturally transmitted behaviour. We see it in chimps & other primates, so I expect to see it in Sasquatch. This is still a long way from Sasquatch learning human dialects.

  27. Ole Bub responds:

    Good morning Chymo….not sure I agree…

    Last time I looked…Koko and his friends were squatting in a cages…while sasquatch is roaming free…twisting off trees…

    Intuitively….sasquatch may be a helluva lot brighter than some folks think…perhaps fully capable of speech and language…JMHO

    You compare them to apes and chimps…nothing I saw looked apelike to me….perhaps the Native Americans are correct…a parallel race of humanlike big folks…

    I never realized there were so many habituated, multi-lingual, psychic sasquatches on the prowl…ignorance may be bliss…

    I’m just trying to get up to speed to better understand what I saw…twice.

    My “expertise” is entrepreneurship, free market capitalism and Mid-Continent oil and gas exploration….not secretive critters hiding behind a tree….living in a cave condo….

    I don’t see Bigfoot sweating bullets in the markets, or mowing the grass…

    seeing is believing….

    ole bub and the dawgs

  28. Chymo responds:

    You wanna send me a few tips on makin’ big bucks, then? Cos I tell ya, I sure need it. :D

  29. Ole Bub responds:

    Good afternoon Chymo….

    Certainly…Biophan Technologies..BIPH…a virtual monopoly on MRI procedures with great nanotechnology to boot..do your own DD…JMHO

    I moderate their MB so I won’t pump it..look for an easy triple or more by the shareholders meeting in Mid July….twenty times your investment before the end of the year…time’s a wasting…make a donation to Autumn’s website in both our names…dedicate it to her first born…

    all the best…

    ole bub and the dawgs

  30. shovethenos responds:

    Chymo-

    I wasn’t really commenting on the credibility of the two stories above. They seem quite fantastic, but still possible, so who knows. I was commenting more on the phenomena of vocalizations and possible language use in general.

    As far as your other points are concerned, I’m not a linguist or an anthropologist but I’ll engage in some wild speculation:

    - There might be something special about the Pacific Northwest that effected the population living there. There’s a lot of food to support higher population densities, and hence possibly a more advanced social structure. That kind of thing might drive language development.

    - It might all have been driven by human interaction – the indians there happened to interact with an organism that was physiologically and intellectually able to eventually interact verbally.

    - Some anthropologists credit our primate ancestors’ efforts at hunting for driving the development of intelligence, this could have driven the development of rudimentary language here. The cooperative hunting that chimpanzees do would be rendered much easier with even simple directions and commands. Then you have detailed warning calls, like the kind that were recently described in putty-nosed monkeys. These kinds of things – warning calls and communication while hunting – could have grown and developed into a rudimentary language, especially in a much smarter primate species. I mean you could almost say it would be inevitable if the intellectual capacity is there.

    All wild speculation, of course.

  31. traveler responds:

    this might add a spark of interest. somtime last year i was listing to C2C and heard about a talking parakeet(budgie). i figured thats not big deal i had a talking parrot myself. infact it was even bilingual( english and spanish) but apperently this bird new what it was saying, not just mimicry. i checked out the website and i was flabbergasted. I spent several days listening to the recordings and came a way a believer. the bird was amazing, and even translated bird talk into human speech so the owner could communicate with other birds. the bird also taught his mate to speak english on his own….i dont remember the site or the date of this on C2C, but it is worth lookig into

  32. shovethenos responds:

    Sounds interesting – please post something if you remember more information.

  33. Chymo responds:

    I think he’s talking about N’kisi – the African Grey Parrot who is being studied for his extraordinary use of language. Apparently he grasps grammar, & constructs sentences of his own. In a fit of pique, he came upon the concept of zero (0) in counting, something that some human populations did not do until well after classical times!

    I love that N’kisi can make observations of his own. On a perch, next to another African Grey who was hanging upside down, N’kisi glanced at his friend’s acrobatics & muttered “better get this bird on camera.”

    Classic.

    shovethenos, I am open to the idea that Pacific Northwest Bigfoot might have picked up some cultural influence from prehistoric interaction with early man, but I’m dubious as to whether the exploration of this possibility is worthwhile until we get some evidence that is consistant, in that regard. I wouldn’t estimate Bigfoot population to be large at all, I reckon they’re close to extinction.

    I don’t have a problem with the idea of Bigfoot communicating in some form of language, verbal or otherwise, with each other, I have a problem with Bigfoot using *human* language. I regard it as highly improbable, for all the reasons I’ve noted above.

    I am a long-time proponent of sentience in a wide range of animal species, so I’m not opposed to ideas about Sasquatch intellect being high. People make the mistake, however, of anthropomorphising animal thought. They are alien beings, they won’t think like us, even if they are sentient, so their development in that regard won’t mirror ours. See: cetaceans.

  34. Chymo responds:

    On post – I realise he’s talking about Victor the Budgie. This case is not as interesting as N’kisi as it contains quite a bit of psychological projection on the part of the witness.

    Cheers!

  35. Ole Bub responds:

    Good Morning Chymo….

    I hope you bought some BIPH yesterday….if so congratulations…you are about 30 percent ahead in Germany this morning and should be about 75% ahead in the USA by the end of trading today.

    all the best…

    ole bub and the dawgs

  36. Chymo responds:

    Working on it, Ole Bub! Thanks!

  37. Tabitca responds:

    I wonder if the ESP thing stems from the old Yeti film with Peter Cushing. I seem to rememebr that the Yeti used ESP in the film to communicate. Anyone else remember that ?

  38. oroblanco responds:

    I fail to see why the idea of a talking Sasquatch should be so outlandish. The problem arises only when one is approaching the subject with the pre-ordained theory that the creature must be some type of ape, and definitely not some type of human.

    This bias is probably misconceived. There is enough evidence to suggest that Bigfoot is not some type of ape but an early type of human. The best candidate for Bigfoot’s ancestors appear to be Meganthropus, which stood up to twelve feet tall and weighed up to and over 1000 pounds. These giant humans (and yes they were humans, not simian) made and used tools and managed to reach Australia in the dim past – they certainly would have been capable of crossing a Bering Straits land bridge to reach and colonize the Americas. These early humans may not have been able to speak on the same level of complexity that modern humans do, but would be capable of mimicking the same sounds. There are a number of Native legends of what can only be Bigfoot, which mention the fact these creatures can repeat what is said, mimicking human speech. Then there are the odd reports of Bigfoot wearing clothes – tattered and ill-fitting but pants and shirts! Would an ape choose to put on human clothes?

    The very fact that Bigfoot is elusive enough to escape capture or killing by humans is evidence that it is no ordinary animal like a gorilla, with animal logic and thinking capabilities, rather it points to a level of intellect that approaches our own. One need only compare the reports of escaped “survivalist” convicts, who were able to escape dozens of law officers equipped with helicopters, dogs etc and you can see the similarities.

    It is only my opinion, but if you examine the reports with an open mind and instead of pre-supposing the creature to be some kind of upright ape, look at it with the concept that this may be another type of human being, many otherwise perplexing reports make sense, like the “talking Sasquatch” or the reports of seeing them wear clothes. It explains why the captured young creature nicknamed “Jacko” acted less like an animal than like a wild human being.

    By this line of logic, it would be criminal to kill a Bigfoot for the sake of science, and in my opinion the accomplishment of “convincing” the scientific community is highly over-rated. The skeptics who sit in university halls and proclaim that such a creature cannot exist, without having done a whit of field research, who declaim all eyewitness accounts as rubbish, are certainly not true men and women of science or they would act to investigate the mystery instead of dismissing it out of hand. One last point here, that it is wrong to dismiss eyewitness accounts as “nothing” – if you believe that just look at what happens in court if two or more eyewitnesses declare that you have committed a crime. Witness accounts do have weight and value.
    Oroblanco

    “By all means marry; if you get a good wife you will be happy, if you get a bad one you will become a philosopher.” –Socrates

  39. caa responds:

    A couple of comments about this discussion… sorry for it being so late in coming, but I’ve just found this website.

    1. The original characterization of the stories was flawed. If you read the originals as published, you’ll find that the details differ a bit, and can answer some of the concerns raised here. For example, Charlie did not just decide to shoot a 12yo boy… he was hunting, his dog flushed something from a hole and he fired. Similarly, Serephine Long didn’t just “decide to come home”… she had begged many times to come home, and it was only after she was deathly sick that the Sasquatch returned her. She gave birth a few hours later.

    2. Speech doesn’t have to be verbal. I find it interesting that only once is an actual dialect mentioned… other times, speech is assumed but not described. It could just as easily be non-verbal.

    Here’s a link to what is purported to be scanned-in originals of JW Burns stories:

    You’re probably aware of these, but it might save someone some time.

  40. driftinmark responds:

    whos to say the big guy isnt even smarter than us, are we so holier than thou?…….he is living with nature, not against it, its a concept of perfect ecology, just about the only species that lives against nature is man, european man, so who is smarter for the well being of this planet, us or the big guy?

    it might be our concept of what is wisdom that is at play here, do we consider ourselves wise because we came up with the concept of speech?
    I believe the big guy can talk, but only when he or she has too, too many reports of gibberish not to believe this, and since we can be bilingual, so can he…….

    what if evolution was different, what if the apes and chimps descended from us, and perhaps we descended from the big guy……………open your minds a little, anything is possible………

    I believe there was a lot of interaction , with the native americans and susquatch in the early times, that seems to have eroded as recently as the 1700′s,(so this could be how he could speak and old dialect of the douglas tounge), possibly with the advent of firearms with the first hunters from hudson bay , i think this had a lot to do with the big guy not wanting to contact or trust us at all, to this day, he is avoiding us at all cost, we have a few sightings here and there, but something tells me, they are all around us but we are to caught up in this world we have created to really see him……..estimates have been given at 4 to 6 thousand for a good breading population, i believe that number is a lot higher…………….

    have you ever tried to hide in the woods, you can be within a few feet from someone and not be seen , its very possible, also take into consideration, the fact he is highly intelligent and prolly has a higher degree of instinct than we have, and you have a perfect stealth mode for a creature, I’ll bet he is truly amazing ………..

    i just came across this thread just thought i would add my 2 cents, i have been studying this guy for many years now, never had a sighting, but I heard a very loud yell while hunting one day, the lungs must have been enormous, no critter I ever heard before sounded like that, and yes it sounded human, but the volume was louder than any of my drunk friends could ever yell, lol………..i left the area right away

  41. Ole Bub responds:

    Excellent post Mark…

    I happen to agree with most everything you’ve posted….I feel there are many more of this wonderous creatures than folks realize and they must be much smarter and better adapted than we give them credit for….if only to survive and some cases prosper….good stuff…

    much obliged….

    seeing is believing…

    ole bub and the dags

  42. driftinmark responds:

    thanks ole bub,

    I hardly post anywhere on this subject, kinda keep to myself about this stuff, not to many open minds around where I live, mention bigfoot and hear the laughter, lol………

    I have been studying for around 20 years on this subject, its taken me thru the bible, (anak and the sons of anak), also have studied much history, mostly native american (where you can find it)…..some anthropology, and archeology…I don’t have any degrees, but can keep up with most who do…..except in spelling, lol.

    the native americans know, not believe, the word is know, that he exists, look up the definition for both words, very important, I too know that he is real……

    the patterson/gimlin film is real, I dont need any scientific study to be done to recognize that what we saw in that film is the real deal, most of the others are hoaxes and fakes, plain and simple…….it was just the right place, right time type of deal……

    the big guy is mentioned many places even in our short history on this continent, from hudson bay hunters, to lewis and clark, and his many different names in the native tounge…….

    I think the thing we usually think of is that short period that we as european men think of as history on this continent, is just a short blurb in all that has happened here, the 2 or 3 hundred years that we have been here, not a long time at all, up until about 2 or 3 years ago, it was thought that the pre-clovis time was as early as people have been here, but that date has been extended quite aways, to well before the first ice age, kinda makes ya wonder how long we have really been here…….enough history, lol, wow, did I hijack this thread?

    there is also another story of a native american, that was hunting one day, and drew down on what he thought was a bear, just as he was about to release the arrow, the bear stood up and SPOKE CLEARLY in HIS native language NOT to shoot him, this should answer both questions of mimicry and context, it took pure thought to say what was said………there was another instance in california, a family bought a house and kept chickens and other animals there, there was a gate that you had to open to drive in the yard, at that gate, the gentleman was pulling from work one afternoon, and thought he heard his wife calling chickens, followed by laughter, now thats interesting too, the big guy has humor, lol, nuttin I want to hear more than a few knee slappers from the big guy himself, lol…….another instance where someone spotted two teenage bigfeet singing by a stream, and swaying, does this sound like an animal?

    i think not……………

    so, my summation from all this is, that we have got a smart cookie on our hands that doesn’t really want to be found, at least not yet, but he is watching us, lol, go figure, he must be watching us looking for him, lol……..

    I love this site Loren, its great.

    I live in western ny, and have studied the seneca, very interesting things they know…………..what fascinated me the most is all the things that were found here when the country was first being prepared for farming, LOTS of large bones, but that is for another thread……..

    later

  43. Dark-Obsessor responds:

    I doubt they have a full faculty of speech…



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