New Skunk Ape Sighting
Posted by: Loren Coleman on June 13th, 2006
There’s been a new Green Swamp (“Skunk Ape”) sighting. We have permission of Scott Marlowe to pass this along to Cryptomundo readers. Here’s the details, uncensored:
This record was first created on 6/9/2006
Month = 5
Day = 27
Year = 2006
Season = Spring
Region = 5
City = Lakeland
County = Polk
FIPS = 12015
Zip Code = 33803
Longitude =
Latitude =
Source = Direct
Type = Terrestrial
Cryptid = Swamp Ape
Sighting Summary = Pangea Institute field group watched and was paced by a Swamp Ape seen by team members
Narrative = The team had gone to the Green Swamp Closed Area to take photos of a team member in the same area where he had seen the a Swamp Ape in 1985.
Upon entering the Green Swamp along the dirt road area a large rock was found in the middle of the road had to be removed. (This phenomena has been encountered in the past in the same location by our field investigators).
Upon leaving the area of the photo shoot, the team stopped to investigate the location where the rock had been placed in the road.
After only a short time members of the group reported that they felt as if the team was being watched from the tree line on the north side of the road.
Team member, David Dowdy, told Ben Mills to retrieve his field glasses as he saw a large black creature standing among behind foliage. When Mills focused on the spot indicated by Dowdy, Mills observed a large animal with Red glowing eyes standing concealed by the brush about 150 yards in front of him. Upon seeing the animal it turned and moved away. Mr. Marlowe was able to track its movement with directional sound equipment on hand.
The team entered the treeline while the animal continued to move away from us, out of sight, but remaining close enough to keep us in its view.
Mr. Marlowe, Dowdy and photographer Matt Hoyle, attempted to draw the animal out of hiding to effect a photographic encounter, but the daylight was waining and we were not properly geared up for an night time observation and did not have our snake gear with us. Mr. Hoyle recorded the pursuit activities on his digital video camera but did not get a shot of the creature during the event.
Mr. Marlowe suggested that the team withdraw so as not to frighten the animal from the area which has been the subject of an ongoing investigation since our November 2005 Field Study.
Contact Name = Ben Mills.
About Loren Coleman
Loren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading living cryptozoologist. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct).
Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013. He returned as an infrequent contributor beginning Halloween week of 2015.
Coleman is the founder in 2003, and current director of the International Cryptozoology Museum in Portland, Maine.
Quite an interesting account coming hot on the heels of Craig’s “Swamp Ape Festival” posting.
Synchronicity thy name is Cryptomundo!
Smart move from Scott backing out so as not to spook the booger out of his stomping grounds. Sounds like a promising locale for setting up some game cameras.
Was the cryptid’s appearance similar to the Myakka photos?
Ben was so focused on the red eyes (and reliving his experience as a young camper in the same area when he saw the animal in another area of the Green Swamp) that apparently didn’t notice any white around the eyes. (But, Ben’s face was certainly white when I saw him immediately after lowering the field glasses and he looked like he’d seen the perverbial ghost).
Those of you that have been following our study in this area will know that, when Ken Gerhard was with us in November, the team located what we believe to be 7 ground nests belonging to a family of Swamp Apes. At the time, we estimated that these nests (all constructed identically) were about 1 year old. The nest site is located about 1/2 mile from the location of this sighting.
As I stated in Craig’s posting, I would appreciate it if people would refer to this animal as the “Swamp Ape” and not a “Skunk Ape” so as to differentiate between the obvious hoaxes of Collier County and an animal that appears to be the “real deal”.
Now that Ben has calmed down, I will inquire if he can recall any additional detail about what he observed — however, bear in mind that two-weeks removed, his recollection may now be “colored”. I asked him to record his statement in our database (this appears above) and it took him about a week to accomplish this.
My associate David, who also saw the dark form without the benefit of field glasses, didn’t describe white patches but did state that the animal was not facially similar to the Myakka animal.
I also have some interesting vocal recordings I made on a digital device with my parabolic microphone and knocks that have been recorded on tape made by our associate John Bresnahan in the area of the nests over the past 7 months that we have been studying the Green Swamp.
Both John and I have stayed overnight there alone. John has deployed trap cams in the area. So far, we’ve used a dead raccoon carcass, garlic, and meat as bait. We are now in possession of pheromone chips and are trying these. They were deployed just prior to TS Alberto drenching us with rain this week.
Jeremy, thank you for the compliment! Given the additional detail provided, I’m sure everyone will appreciate why I made the decision to back off at this time. Other factors were darkness falling and that we were in an area known for poisonous snakes without proper leggings and equipment at the time having been on the scene for another purpose at that time. This encounter was not a surprise, but wasn’t expected. Should anything come out of Matt’s video camera or our trap cams, we will provide images to cryptomundo.
I have a request in to FFWC about the possibility of escaped primates from their exotic species list. We are awaiting a reply from them.
Readers should note, we would welcome bona fide assistance with this research and any activity in this part of the Green Swamp requires a permit from SWFWMD. This is not a WMA, and is closed to the Public except by special permiting from the state agency.
It could be that Ben failed to notice any white patches around the eyes not because he was so focused on the red eyes, but because there simply were no white patches. I personally think it’s premature to try to make these sightings fit a preconceived mold.
Jayman, you are absolutely correct!
Interesting.
And ditto on the “preconceived mold.” Unless that illustration up there is based on clear photographs of a Swamp Ape, we con’t know what they look like, and differences in pelage are to be expected, as are lighting conditions differing among sightings in such a way as to influence what is seen.
I think a certain Oklahoma Bigfoot down this site a bit could take a few lessons from the Swamp Ape. 😉
I’m really intrigued about the bit with the rock… this is a common thing?
DWA, as explained in a previous thread, the drawing Loren posted is from the Jennifer Ward sighting and represents a professional forensic rendering from memory and amateur sketches made by the eyewitness. It is akin to a “police artist” sketch of a criminal (not to suggest that the Swamp Ape should be considered a bad guy) who committed a crime not recorded photographically.
While the illustration is good publishing here, it really isn’t appropriate to display it in the context of this sighting — particularly since Ben IS familiar with Jennifer Ward, her sighting event and this illustration and HASN’T noted ANY similarities as of this writing.
Clutch, as far as the rock is concerned: this was the 6th time that I personally have had to remove a large stone PLACED in the middle of the road. On one occasion, I encountered such a stone on the way in to the site; throwing it off the road, and then finding the same stone BACK in the middle of the road upon exiting the next day (after spending the night at the research site).
My associate, John Bresnahan, has also encountered this phenomena and noted it while doing the same solo research.
We have checked with the rangers — thinking that it was some sort of marker placed by them — but they deny having set it in place.
Point them cams at the rock!
That is awesome, keep up the good work. Great achievments take time, but it is well worth it 4 real.
Um, Senor may have a point here. Replace that rock and focus a game cam on the spot you put it to see which ranger is lying.
😀
Seriously, why the heck not? That on at least one occasion it was the same stone (now of course I don’t know how many big rocks there are around that spot), this might be a way to get something.
And yep, SC, I knew where the sketch came from. My meaning should have been clearer: agreement with the tenor of Jayman’s post 4. What we see here may not be what was seen there.
Perhaps the swamp ape’s eyes were red because it eats wild marijuana?could happen anything is possible,my friends dog eats his stuff all the time.
The suggested cam placement has occurred to us. The problem is that there isn’t an concealed location to place a cam along the road. I’m sure you all know how adept the animal is at avoiding trap cams.
I’m looking into having a fiberglass imitation rock made in which we can conceal a home-made trap camera now.
I’ve also examined the stones for possible dermal prints. Unfortunately, the material wasn’t suited to leaving a clear print else I would have used luminol or blue star to lift a fingerprint as I am knowledgeable in this forensic procedure. We are also considering peppering the rock supply with flat surfaced, debris-free stones in the hope that the animal will chose one to place in the road — should this phenomena continue.
I spoke to Ben Mills a few minutes ago and inquired about what he saw. He as more lucid about it and gave me more detail. It isn’t “best evidence” for me to repeat hearsay, so I’ve asked him to sign up for Cryptomundo himself and post his observations for you all to have a dialog with him about it first-hand. He said he would do so when he gets off work and is able to get a little shut-eye tomorrow.
Harleyb, The red eye is due to animal eye shine and not wacky weed. In the eastern section of the Green Swamp, the authorities have had problems with growers in the past, but that area is 30 miles or more removed from this location. NONE of our people partake of the stuff. I hope that’s not what you are implying as they and I would be greatly offended.
Ken, hoping that you see this, the area in question is the same spot where you found the track in November that the team and ranger determined to be a corrupted boot print and you felt was from the animal.
It may be that you were correct!
Another comment on preconceived molds, per this statement: “I’m sure you all know how adept the animal is at avoiding trap cams.”
Actually, I — we — don’t. I think scarcity and nomadism are as likely explanations as smarts or adeptness for why we can’t seem to get a good game cam shot of a(n entire) sas. 😉
It makes sense to conceal a camera as best you can, for a number of reasons. (Our species, for example, is known for having lots of fun with all kinds of cameras.) But given a choice, I’d think better an exposed camera than nothing, if you get the chance.
This rock thing is just too cool not to follow up.
Wow I hope when you return to this area you will be able to get a photo. From looking at the swamp ape through the field glasses what was the estimated height of the creature?? You did say the he was very adept at avoiding the trap cams any idea why this is?? I would think they would not have a clue as to what a camera would be. Maybe just the smell left from a human to scare them from an area or something???
DWA, your point is well taken, however another round of questionable photographs due to the indistinct nature of those taken from a distance also comes into play.
I’m not too concerned about camera theft if we were to place a cam on a stake adjacent to the road — given the public controlled nature of the location.
That said, I will discuss your idea with the others and perhaps John will (he lives closest to the location) put out a cam this week if the stone should find its way back to the road. This would be particularly interesting if it occurs after a heavy rain. Alberto should have passed us by late tonight, but the dirt road will be a quagmire for at least two days.
twblack, as stated previous, we have deployed camera traps in the area previously. Nothing has, so far turned up, but a dancing grey fox, a Florida panther on the prowl and large white-tail deer.
There have been no bear sighting in this area for about 20 years — although that doesn’t mean there aren’t any.
Boar are plentyful and have confounded all our attempts at securing a clear track in this vicinity with their rooting activity.
I remember reading years ago that in a desert region of western US that there was a possible connection of hominids making rock towers/piles. Wasn’t this speculated as a form of territory marking? The teams studying these rocks felt that they were being watched. This would fit in this case as the team felt that they were being watched from the tree line. This rock may be indeed be a key to future photographic evidence. I would also consider using some of the pheromone chips near these rocks.
>>
I recommend open cans of cheap cat food! Extremely aromatic for any scavenger.
J-Foisy, yes, I am familiar with those accounts and attributions. Everyone, your comments are appreciated, but don’t let your desire for instant gratification overpower proper scientific procedure. Potential outcomes must be considered before deciding on a course of action.
As previously stated, J-Foisy, we are now in possession of pheromone chips, have deployed some of same in the area, but not yet in association with the rock location. This will be done as it is an obvious ploy.
Igodfrey, cat/dog food has been tried in other active areas outside of the GS Closed Area — without luck. Out feeling is that human scent taints the bait. I have aquired some bio-suits and nitril gloves to be used in future baiting attempts.
Nice work SC…best of luck….stay safe and watch where you put your hands and feet…
seeing is believing….
ole bub and the dawgs
My associate, Ed Craft, has posted the podcast version of our radio show on the Magick Mind Radio online archive.
We discussed this sighting during the beginning of the June 6, 2006 show and David Dowdy actually called in to relate his version of the sighting during the show.
If you’d like to hear the “broadcast” you can download the MP3 file for playback on your pod or computer.
No sir,just a theory,I apologize if I offended.Keep up the great work!
Interesting report to say the least!
I look forward to reading Ben’s post
SC: re: post 17.
Swamp Ape? What swamp ape?
You got a FLORIDA PANTHER!?!?!? Now that’s news! 😀
Yes, DWA, a Florida Panther. He was nice enough to leave 17 paw prints for us too. We cast the 4 best of them and each member of the team got one to keep.
The rangers have continued to tell us that there weren’t any panthers in the area — until I showed them the track cast.
We had an 10 to 11 month old Florida Panther run down by a motorist about a quarter mile from my home last April. So I know they are around.
Quite a number of them have been road killed this past year. I’ve seen two dead on the site of the Kissimmee River bridge on US 98 south of Lorida, Florida over the past month on my way to Plantation for the radio broadcasts. One of them was a youngster too.
Frankly, I wish the drivers would slow down around here. Wildlife are too frequently paying the price for impatient yuppies in their SUVs.
Well, SC, dunno here. Between you guys who got track casts and a photo and the rangers, gotta trust the rangers, I think. They know where EVERYTHING is.
Case in point: backpacking in the Tetons, crossing Hurricane Pass and descending past the Schoolroom Glacier (if it hasn’t melted already, one of the Sights Every American Should See). I catch movement on the glacier headwall, look up….and a bachelor band of like 30 bighorn is crossing the headwall, single file! They get off the glacier and start grazing their way across the meadow above the trail, to within like 20 yards of us. No question what they were; no other animal would even do what they did, let alone look so distinctive.
So, get to camp that night, there’s a ranger there. “So, you got any bighorn in this park?” Um, nosiree we don’t, none. Shame I couldn’t develop the roll of film I squeezed off for her to look at, right there. (Digital came too late to help this time.)
A number of places across the state have been recording panther sightings for a long time. Can’t imagine why anyone would think they’re all crowded down there in the southern tip, when so much info is telling otherwise. [sigh] land management agencies; can’t live with ’em…
Can we see the photo, pretty please?
🙂
Scot I hope your team can come up with a way to point a cam at that rock. It would seem a good chance as it’s placement is somewhat regular.
Interesting thing about the rock is the general BF uses of rocks/boulders – said general BF in respect to your theory Swamp Ape is a sub-species. Am glad the rock is being placed instaed of thrown!
It sounds like you are getting close to something.
Good Hunting
I think I’ll just continue referring to them as “bigfoot” or “sasquatch”. Too many people have tried to suggest that the creatures here in Florida are a different species and to refer to them as “skunk ape” or “swamp ape” only helps to further that extremely premature conclusion.
DWA, I don’t have admin blogging rights on Cryptomundo that allow photo posting here — or I don’t know how to accomplish it. John will be retrieving another card of shots over the weekend, so I’ll look those over too and see if we have something new as well.
As far as Park Rangers knowing “EVERYTHING” is concerned, you should have been there when a Ranger at the Everglades NWR was walking through Mahogany Hammock off the boardwalk telling us that they weren’t having ANY problems with exotic snakes — as he stepped on an 8 foot Boa.
BTW, Ben called me to say that he was trying to set up a Cryptomundo account today, but hasn’t received the e-mail reply with his passcode.
Hopefully, he’ll be able to get situated shortly.
Hello everyone. My name is Ben Mills. I am the co founder of the Pangea Institute Rapid Response Team. I was the one looking through the field glass on the day this incident occured. I saw the outline of the animal standing but in somewhat crouched position. I also saw two red eyes about 3 inches apart. I could not make out any color difference specifically, but the hair around the eyes did seem to be a lighter color. The Animal looked right at me. It stared and then turned and walked away.
I retrieved my field bag and then entered the woods with other team members. Due to the failing light, I lost sight of the animal. The brush was very thick, and the light was failing. I returned to the road as by this time I was winded and did not want to spook the animal. The rest of the team also returned to the road. I will be happy to answer questions as best as possible.
Tim, given the eyewitness accounts that we have been able to verify as credible, track evidence, and the anatomical differences (that are consistent between anecdotal accounts), and assuming them to be accurate, we are looking at two different animals here.
Indeed, Sasquatch-like animals have been sighted here and I’m not precluding them as being part of the enigmatic fauna in Florida, but the Swamp Ape we’ve been studying is substantially differentiated.
The term “Bigfoot” has evolved in the common vernacular to be indicative of ANY non-human, hairy, bipedal primate (or primate-like) creature. Thus, it is no longer accurately applied in scientific discussion.
I have written a white paper on this subject matter that explores the “Bigfoot” phenomena world-wide and the apparent phylogeny implied from the accounts as well as obvious voids in the fossil record or unclear decendency from anomalies like the so-called Mungo Man leaves plenty of room for multiple species of “Bigfoot” animals.
Since there is no “body” to support the existence of a Sasquatch, the G. blackii notion is no more of a stretch than the idea that there is more than one kind.
Ben, glad you finally made it!
You forgot to add the informational item you mentioned yesterday regarding the cranial shape of the animal’s head.
Welcome to Cryptomundo Ben…
SC’s running play by play commentary has keep us posted…nice work…persistence pays off…often handsomely….
Please keep us older armchair quarterbacks posted…while we share your exploits vicariously….
seeing is believing…..
Steve Summar
Thanks for your opinion, Scott (although I don’t agree with it). I’m curious, do you happen to have a database of these credible sightings you’ve investigated? If so, and it’s available on the ‘net I’d sure be interested in perusing it. Thanks.
Oh, and as you state, since we have no body to study (of even one species, let alone several), how have you been able to determine “anatomical differences”? No offense, but that certainly sounds like a stretch to me.
I can take a crack at that, Tim, although I know Scott will too.
“Anatomical differences” are frequently, as here, external and verifiable by sight. The reports of the Florida apes differ, consistently, from sasquatch reports elsewhere in a number of easily observable details (summed up by saying that the Florida species seem much more like known pongids than the sas does).
I’d agree with Scott that it’s no more farfetched at this point to consider the possibility of multiple undiscovered species than it is one. Species designations are a very fluid thing; we might even find out there are several species of sas, if science ever brings enough weight to the hunt that we start getting the data to make the assessment.
Summing up: it’s damn hard to get “the body” without serious scientific involvement. Until then, though, we have this: sas sightings seem to differ from each other in very consistent ways (i.e., young ones old ones females males; footprints that differ, in just the way humans’ prints differ; etc.) The Florida apes also seem to differ from the sas in very consistent ways.
Anatomical differences are verifiable by sight??? You’re kidding, right?
As for the Florida “species” being different, please explain to me how a median height estimate from witnesses at roughly seven feet across the board is consistently different from sasquatch sightings elsewhere.
Kidding? Why would Webster’s lie?
Anatomy n. the structure of a plant or animal or of any of its elements.
So yo, dude. Arm/leg/torso ratios: sight. Eyes: sight. Head appearance, including facial features and presence/absence of sagittal crest: sight. Feet/hands: sight. Without a body, pretty much everything: sight!!
What? If we can’t open it up and see its innards, it doesn’t exist?!?!?!?!
Oh. Height isn’t the only species distinctor, last time I checked. You could have two quite different animals whose heads are about the same distance off the ground. Happens all the time.
Oh, Webster’s wouldn’t lie, I’m sure of that. The problem is you chose the wrong word. The word I’m keying on is “verifiable”. In a scientific context that’s a potent term, wouldn’t you agree?
verifiable adj. capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation. (syn: confirmable, falsifiable)
Arm/leg/torso ratios are verifiable? How can that be? The Patterson footage is the only purported sasquatch image that I’m aware of that’s had that done. And one piece of evidence is hardly enough to be considered a representative sample.
As for a sagittal crest and it being a determining factor in species differentiation, the only thing I could find by Mr. Marlowe (and I can only assume that you’re an associate of his) was this, “The description of the Texas creature also differed from Ward’s portrayal of the Florida Swamp Ape (corroborated with the other accounts). Most notably, the Texas Bigfoot was reported to have a higher forehead and the anatomical feature known as a sagittal crest along the top of the cranium where the Lakeland Swamp Ape didn’t. Jennifer also reported that the creature she saw had black hair except for white around its eyes.”
What other accounts?
Also, I’m well aware that height isn’t the only indicator for a species. If you’ve got something that is verifiable, I’d really love to see it. I’ll be posting a link here shortly that will help illustrate my point concerning height and the inferences that can be made from it. Til then.
Here’s the link I promised. (And thank you, Mr. Coleman, for your patience. I realize this isn’t the venue for this dialogue.)
The information in the Swamp Ape database is compiled from a variety of sources which are listed as “Source” in the database — thus credit to the originator is provided.
The “contact” data merely reflects the person that an inquiry should be directed to for further information — not the assigned investigator.
The database also contains the name, where available, of the eyewitness, but that information is kept confidential under privacy act requirements when same is required by the eyewitness.
Hard to know where to start; and I won’t have time to do this in full ’til much later. Quick though:
1. Nope, I’m no associate of Scott (although that doesn’t seem like it would be too big a problem, eh?) Just an interested bystander.
2. “Verifiable” isn’t even in the discussion with regard to an unknown species until science accepts the evidence (and provides something against which one can verify). But you can run reports against a “police lineup” of prior reports and see if there’s a rough congruence. And my understanding — based again on what I’ve heard — is that Florida sightings seem to run different from the rest of the country.
That’s all I’ve heard. Which is about as much as I’ve heard about, say, the Tusayan warty pig — which I just have to take science’s word on it is a verified species. 😉
Oh. And this is most CERTAINLY QUITE the venue for this dialogue.
Wouldn’t everyone (else) agree…? 😉
Oh. “Verifiable” in my context (warning: I’m not a scientist): capable of being tested by your brain, ascertaining what your very eyes are telling you.
Which of course wouldn’t convince a scientist. 😉
All we have to go on now is what people see, as no species have been verified by science yet. And based on what I’ve heard, what people see in FL looks different from what people elsewhere are seeing, in pretty consistent ways.
Based, once again, on what I’ve heard. And nothing else. And until we have species ID on one or more of these critters that’s all there is, right, what people have seen? and heard?
DWA, as I’ve stated previously but has evidently been ignored by others, I’m not saying that ALL sightings here in Florida are one way or the other.
Indeed some sightings, including my own in 1975, bear a closer resemblance to a sasquatch (albeit less husky, more muscular and shorter than what appears to be typical in other parts of the country) and a significant number of sightings primarily along the Gulf Coast that more closely resemble the animal seen by Jennifer Ward and drawn by Matt Ellis.
My students have assisted in compiling a database of sightings (as noted by Tim) from a variety of sources. The database is not complete (we are in the process of geocoding and completing entries) and checking out the reliability of reported encounters with field studies sanctioned by the college I work with. The most recent field study was in the Ochopee area due to the concentration of sightings there. Our findings are posted in a report on the Pangea Institute website as are the results of our November study in the Green Swamp (which merits on-going research owing to the apparent authenticity of the finds).
Obviously, work of this kind can not generate the instant gratification that is being demanded by some here. Clearly, my postings here are an attempt to present preliminary findings and ideas and subject them to “peer review” as the scientific method requires. It would be unrealistic to expect everyone to agree with these concepts nor that our findings aren’t subject to change as new information discovered or becomes available. That’s science in action.
Ah! Now the source is listed. It wasn’t as of yesterday. Much better, Mr. Marlowe.
Not everyone needs “instant gratification”. Some of us are trying to discuss topics and throw out ideas. I for one am sorry if you have been upset by anything that I have written. Not everyone is trying to tell you what to do in your investigations some of us are only trying to have professional conversations.