Dr. Dino Goes To Jail
Posted by: Loren Coleman on November 3rd, 2006
Drawings of Mokele-mbembe by Bill Rebsamen, used with permission.
David Pescovitz over at Boing Boing has posted the final news from the trial of “Creationist Dr. Dino,” who is now on his way to jail:
Kent “Dr. Dino” Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism and the Dinosaur Adventure Land creationist theme park in Florida (“where Dinosaurs and the Bible meet!”), and his wife face more than 200 years in jail for tax fraud.
Pescovitz gives links to a past discussion of the case [Please note the “LC” who left a comment there is not me] where it was pointed out that:
[Hovind has been] sparring with the IRS for at least 17 years on his claims that he is employed by God, receives no income, has no expenses and owns no property.
Then Boing Boing notes that on November 2, 2006:
Dr. Dino was found guilty on 58 counts, including not paying an $845,000 employee-related tax bill.
Boing Boing gives the links to an article in the Pensacola News Journal and to the Scientific American’s “15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense.”
While I may have several friends who probably call themselves “creationists,” I have found it necessary to keep some distance from the Creation Science Evangelism, due to the simple fact I consider evolution a fact. Or as Lewis Black discusses in his comedy routine, “I think evolution is important because it’s a small corner of a large tapestry that I like to call—reality. And the thing is—I’m right. I don’t have to argue this point any more. Fossils. Fossils. Fossils. I win.’’
Mokele-mbembe art courtesy of Bill Rebsamen. Click on image for a larger view.
As many people know, Kent Hovind has been backing the search for Mokele-mbembe for years, as he felt if he could prove that a living dinosaur species existed, it would overthrow evolution. Of course, such a discovery would do no such thing, and there are many “prehistoric” species that exist little changed today. But that’s the reason that these folks are routinely involved as “creationist cryptozoologists” as they feel such quests support their view of the world.
I’ve mentioned Hovind in a blog entry here, in conjunction with how his life intersected with the Reverend Eugene Thomas, 78, who died last December 2005. Thomas was the famed African missionary who was informed by pygmies that they had killed a “dinosaur.”
About Loren Coleman
Loren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading living cryptozoologist. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct).
Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013. He returned as an infrequent contributor beginning Halloween week of 2015.
Coleman is the founder in 2003, and current director of the International Cryptozoology Museum in Portland, Maine.
Well this is all very interesting indeed! But I wonder, has Science actually proven evolution beyond any doubt? If so, then what is the “Missing Link”? And why is it still missing? Furthermore what are we humans going to evolve into eventually? Grays?
My hero (besides you Loren)…has been arrested? Oh my, what has become of this world?
“I once spent a rather happy time in Texas, studying the dinosaur footprints on the Paluxy riverbed which has given rise to a local legend because there is said to be human footprints interspersed with the dinosaur footprints.
If that were true then that would blow evolution out of the water.
It isn’t true of course. Those alledged human footprints are dinosaur heelprints which just look vaguely long shaped in the way human feet might be.” – Richard Dawkins
Do NOT mess with the government’s money. Even Jesus knew that and he was a creationist too.
I love the new comment guidelines.
Well here we go. As some of you know I am a creationist and I have heard and even done some research into Hovinds theories. And yes I am one of those that feel that finding a live dino would put a dent into evolution. But then again we will believe what we believe, and use the evidence to support our theories. It is sad that this person is being used to represent “creationist cryptozoologist” but that is how it seems to work for us “religious types”. It’s the nuts that seem to get all the press, or when they do something wrong. That is why I like this sight, because we all still post our ideas, and even though most of us differ in views, we still listen and observe and ponder each others ideas. Great sight, great blogs, and great visitors.
I’m sorry to hear this, as I know Dr. Hovind is doing a lot of good. Just wish he realized that you can’t fight the IRS.
Actually, there is very convincing evidence for humans living with dinosaurs at humansanddinosaurs.org. I heard the doctor on coasttocoast and he pointed to amazing evidence. It wouldn’t be the first time many scientists have their “facts” messed up. And by the way; true and clear transitional fossils are missing in the fossil record. Anyone with a little bit of objectivity can see that. If it were not the case the whole creation-evolution debate would have been over long ago.
I am myself a creationist and I believe that there are just too many problems with evolutionary theory. Not going to get into it more than that here but the order of the universe points to designer. Shame about this guy. I have never heard of him before but I hate it when guys like that make the rest of us who are just ‘normal people’ with our own beliefs look crazy. As far as discovery of Mokele ruining evolutionary theory, I certainly don’t think that would happen. But seriously, it is what keeps most mainstream scientists from entertaining the possibility of this and many other cryptids from existing.
Ahem the creation-evolution debate was settled long before Charles Darwin published Origin of the Species. For well over 150 years the scientific community has accepted evolution as a fact. There is no debate on it. Just on the fine details.
Mainstream scientists doubt the existance of cryptids because guess what extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When so many bigfoot findings turn out to be hoaxes it’s sort of hard to take the findings seriously.
Anyone that had bothered to try to verify anything Dr. Dino had said would have noticed the man was a giant fraud.
“and clear transitional fossils are missing in the fossil record.”
The hundreds of thousands in museums worldwide and the hundreds found each year disagree with you.
Hovind has been taking in by numerous hoaxes and promotes these hoaxes. Ever hear of Carl Baugh he claimed there were glow in the dark pterodactyls and that he had photos of them. Thing is the photos showed nothing but blackness.
Dr. Dino has claims dinosaurs had long yellow beards or that a human can rip the arms off a t-rex and beat it to death with them.
Tell me why does Dr. Dino claim the Dima mammoth had several different carbon dating results in a 1975 research paper when
A: Dima was found in Sibera in 1977. Kinda hard to date something not found yet wouldn’t you agree?
B. the mammoths in the research paper were found in the 1950s in central Alaska.
C. Mammoths plural each of the dating results comes from a different mammoth found at a different location not one parts of one mammoth.
D. none of the dates Hovind says the mammoth were dated to are in the report at all.
All dating results on Dima and the surrounding deposits around the carcass show the same age. 40,000 years.
Hovind btw was also being watched by the Southern Poverty Law Center because of his anti-goverment views as well as promoting materials published by White Supremacist groups. Kent Hovind believes the Jews are evil and control the world as outlined in the known fraudulent book Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Hovind claimed United Nations troops attacked the Branch Davidians over gun control and that the UN was training tens of thousands of troops in the US to help take it over.
I don’t see how anybody, religious or not, can fail to see the beauty and simplicity of the evolution of species.
Even creationists… I mean, who is to say that God did not create life through a process of evolution? We see it occurring around us all the time.
I think there is some confusion here. The Darwinian theory of evolution through natural selection, and the detail of the evolutionary history of species are significantly different things.
The detail of the story of the evolutionary history of extant and extinct species is bound to be somewhat provisional and to have gaps. This is neither surprising nor particularly significant. There is always going to be differential preservation of evidence over time. As an archaeologist I can tell you that this applies in all contexts. Excavate a graveyard and you will find some skeletons are preserved and some not due to local conditions and contingent events. When considering the deposition of species in an obviously less structured deposition and over a much greater timescale (and with a much less extensive attempt at sampling- that is, we have excavated not even 0.0001 percent of the earths suface) the effect is going to be even more extensive. The gaps in what will be preserved are going to be much more extensive. As such, there will always be some (I stress ‘some’) uncertainty as to the details. That is, for instance, which of the Australopithecine grade hominids was the progenetor of Homo habilis? In fact, with further excavation and further fossil discoveries the gaps and these uncertainties have been, and will continue to be, progressively filled. But we will probably never have filled all the gaps, because that would require that every single individual creature that ever lived to have been preserved and discovered.
This fact, however, is irrelevant to the question of the validity of Darwin’s theory (or at least the neo-Darwinian synthesis). Natural selection is not proved or disproved in the fossil record. It is proved in the fact that we can SEE it occuring in living species. This, of course, is most obvious in species with short life spans where we can see changes over a large number of generations. So, for instance, the fact that ‘hospital superbugs’ are becoming increasingly resistant to antibiotics is living, and dangerous, proof of the mechanism of natural selection. Those bugs, that by by chance genetic mutation, are more resitant to the drug are more likely to survive and reproduce, and thus a population of drug resistant bugs appears (evolves). We can also see it in more complex species. For instance; the moths that, during the industrial revolution in england, became, over time, predominantly brown when they had been predominantly light. As those moths that were by chance somewhat darker that others were better camoflagued in the soot covered landscape, they survived better and produced more young, so carrying on their genes for dark wing pigmentation.
Problems in the fossil record (which are not anywhere near as substantial as some creationists suggest- and there is no even vaguely credible evidence of human/dinosaur coexistence) have little or no bearing on the fact that species DO evolve through natural selection.
And, of course, as Loren says, the discovery of a surviving dinosaur would not do anything, in itself, to disprove either Darwinian theory OR the details of the evolutionary history of species. In fact, i suspect that such a find would only end up supporting both, given the opportunities for genetic and anatomical analysis it would present.
Even us christians know that it is a really bad idea to mess with the IRS.
I know that the creation and evolution debate seemed to be settled in some people’s minds, but that is not a fact. There are many reputable scientists that once believed toe and now see through the huge holes in it. And of course there are the numerous creation scientists who show the amazing evidence for God and the fallacy of toe. I can provide a pretty impressive list of some of these scientists if anyone would like. Please keep an objective mind, alot of what we are taught in school is not necessarily true.
Even though I am not a strict creationist I do find a simple problem with the theory of evolution as preached in the schools today.
Where are the talking dogs and cats?
Their remains have been found along with Neanderthal and Cro-magnon bones essentially unchanged all the while man was learning how to speak, plant, master tools, and create art. Yet these creatures never evolved towards a higher form by any measureable scale. How can evolution allow one species to become fully static and others blossom into an entirely different form? You would think that Darwinian evolution would have demanded some kind of super dog or self aware feline to mutate along with man.
This selective evolutionary track has always been the hole in evolution for me. It screams out for the real possibility of gene manipulation in some form. Outside influence seems as valid as pure natural selection. Whether this is the hand of God and in essence creation is another arguement.
“And by the way; true and clear transitional fossils are missing in the fossil record”
No they aren’t. Here’s a list of some of them:
http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html
The comment quoted below is absurd. Darwinian evolution demands that all living creatures adapt to their environment. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that evolution demands that all creatures become hyper-intelligent. Evolution demands no such thing. You’re creating a straw man argument.
Dogs and cats exist the way they do because they’re well-suited to their environment. They have their place in the grand scheme of things. Same with sharks, for example: Sharks have not changed at all for millions of years. Why? Because they’re well-suited to their environment.
For example, read this article:
8 new species found in a cave
Those creatures had been sealed off in a cave and simply evolved over millions of years. With no light in the cave, no plants could grow, so they subsisted on bacteria. They also wound up without eyes, since eyes were useless in the dark. Etc.
Kent Hovinid is a joke. The Eath is 4.5 billion years old, and evolution happened. Deal with it. It’s certainly possible that a higher power directed evolution, but the reality is it happened. No flood covered the entire planet and drowned the dinosaurs or whatever. All of that stuff is patently absurd.
With respect to Bigfoot and other cryptids: The search for such things is a purely scientific endeavor, in my view. And I agree that it’s a shame that many scientists don’t have an open mind toward such things (I’m also responding to the story about Jeff Meldrum). However, even if a population of dinosaurs was found alive (I’m highly skeptical of such a thing), that wouldn’t disprove evolution. It would simply show that, as Jeff Goldblum’s character said in Jurassic Park, nature found a way.
“Where are the talking dogs and cats?
Their remains have been found along with Neanderthal and Cro-magnon bones essentially unchanged all the while man was learning how to speak, plant, master tools, and create art. Yet these creatures never evolved towards a higher form by any measureable scale. How can evolution allow one species to become fully static and others blossom into an entirely different form? You would think that Darwinian evolution would have demanded some kind of super dog or self aware feline to mutate along with man.”
“I’m sorry to hear this, as I know Dr. Hovind is doing a lot of good. Just wish he realized that you can’t fight the IRS.”
How was he “doing a lot of good” by trying to deceive the IRS in such an idiotic manner? Is someone really a good person when they claim to have no income and no expenses and own no property, when in fact the opposite is clear as day? This isn’t a guy who was fudging his income or expenses; he was openly defying the laws of this country. I’m surprised he was able to do so for *17 years*.
Hovind is a flat-out fool, and the involvement of people like him in cryptozoology only serves to make the field look even more ridiculous to the average person. I hope all self-respecting cryptozoologists steer clear of people like him, and I’m glad he’s going to prison. He deserves it.
Those “transitionals fossils” are not clearly so. Pure speculation to try and make a bad theory work. And of cousre we see micro evolution occur, but not macro.
Of incredible importance is the fact that finely woven textiles were found in digs with bones of neanderthal man. This is amazing evidence that they were far more intelligent and advanced than taught by evolutionists. Their brains were also quite a bit larger than ours. The doctor from dinosaursandhumans talked about these facts on the coasttocoast show he was on. He also said how national geographic was aware of these facts but refused to put it into their magazine. If you are skeptical of this, please do some research before jumping to conclusions. The truth is alot more fascinating than bad science.
You might want to bother to verify the coast to coast claims. Dr. Dino appeared on it numerous times after and spouted claims the creationist movement says not to use since they make anti-evolutionists look like retards.
A larger brain doesn’t mean more intelligent. Whales have larger brains as well. A much larger creature often has a larger brain.
Neanderthals were a lot more bulkier then modern humans. Their brain cases were also quite different. Neanderthals had much thicker bones and show signs of being attached to powerfull muscles.
The idea that super cats and dogs should have evolved should stay in a science fiction novel. Things just don’t work that way. All life is not going to necessarily evolve towards a very high intelligence, but rather towards a form and function best fitted to its biological niche. Bacteria, insects, and so on are fulfilling a role in the ecosystem that does not demand a huge intellect even if they had the physiology required for it. If you say that we should have super dogs or cats, then why not super pigeons, or rats, or roaches? Dinosaurs existed for millions of years and yet they did not evolve into a civillisation. (sorry, you creationists, I’m going on my belief in evolution here.) Very high intelligence is not a neccesity for all environmental circumnstances and also the genetic mutation for this high intelligence is not going to pop up in every animal that exists for a whole plethora of reasons.
Let’s bring this back to cryptozoology, although I do need to explain my own position as a starting point.
To me, Christianity and evolution are not contradictory, unless one insists the account in the book of Genesis is literal. If you take it as allegorical, everything works from there. Creationism cannot explain the stratification and dating of fossils all over the world without entertaining the absurd notion that God set up a “fake world” as a test of faith. One the other hand, evolutionary biology alone does not, to my satisfaction at least, explain why we feel awe, wonder, romantic love, appreciate beauty, and create the fields of theology and philosophy.
Now, let’s think about cryptozoology. Creationists assume that finding creatures that “should” be extinct strengthens the belief that the evolutionary timeline is wrong. It doesn’t. We have always known of examples of creatures that survived over hundreds of millions of years, and we are still finding more.
Where everyone should make common cause is on the importance of discovering, studying, and conserving new species. Whether you take the finding of a new animal as an example of evolution at work or of the infinite variety of God’s creation, the impetus is the same. We need to add to our knowledge of our planet, its inhabitants, and its ecosystems for practical reasons as well as to satisfy our curiosity. Cryptozoology posits that there’s a lot more to be learned about the zoology of the Earth. We should all be able to say, “Amen.”
Matt Bille
I think if you look at just some of the evidence provided on humansanddinosaurs.org you will come away amazed. The doctor was not a whacko and was very level headed. sometimes alot of what we assume and are taught turns out to be wrong. But sometimes it’s hard to admitt error.
Fabian, the web address provided “humansanddinosaurs.org” yields no results through Google or by typing it in the toolbar.
As far as dinosaurs and humans existing as contemporaries, a person needs to only look as far as the figurines of Acambaro (which have never been studied by mainstream scientists thoroughly) to come to the conclusion that dinosaurs were not extinct 65 million years ago, and this opens up the very real possibility for the existence of Moleke-mbembe, and other seemingly relict species existing in our world as yet undiscovered by mainstream science.
Why do so many people seem to think that one cannot be a Christian (or a follower of any other religion for that matter) and also accept that species evolve over time? Does that mean that one must be EITHER Christian OR scientifically-minded, but not both?
If any of these cryptids exist it is because they evolved in a world alongside the better-known animals, and were able to maintain a place here in the present by adapting over time, the way all other species have done.
You don’t have to be godless to realize that evolution of species occurs.
I’m sorry, it’s dinosaursandhumans.org. Very interesting info there. With some amazing photos of what look like mammoths alive in Nepal.
Seeing as the creationism vs evolution debate can get very heated, I am going to get the subject back to cryptozoology here. The most dissappointing aspect of this article is that it detracts from the credibility of cryptozoologists when there is a scandal like this. Making false claims, tax evasion, whatever the case may be now people are going to associate that with others out looking for Mokele-Mbembe and think perhaps they are not the most honest lot. What is the status on the search for this cryptid anyway? I have not seen very much on it recently.
Those Acambaro figures seem pretty suspicious to me. 32,000 figures, almost all of them in perfect condition, dug up by farmers who were paid for each one they produced. Wikipedia’s article on the subject does a good job of weighing the pros and cons. Clearly, the cons win.
RE pictographs, etc.: Maybe ancient humans came across fossilized dinosaur skeletons and, not knowing that they had been dead millions of years, freaked out and thought such things were really wandering the planet with them. The first known contact with dinosaur skeletons was in the 19th century, but it’s always possible that ancient humans uncovered them too. If they did, they could have easily depicted them in their cave drawings. I’ve always thought that that’s where stories about dragons likely came from.
fabian- yet again there is a thorough misunderstanding of the difference between the details of a particular evolutionary story and the validity of evolutionary theory in itself (see my earlier post, above). Whether or not Neanderthals were more or less intelligent than we currently accept, that has no bearing on whether or not they, as with every other species, evolved through natural selection.
Furthermore, as yetanotheroldfossil rightly points out, absolute brain size is largely irrelevant to questions of intelligence. It is much more important to take into account the relation of brain size to body mass and the relative encephalization.
And, as an archaeologist working on the evolution of hominids and hominid intelligence, and having a close colleague who works on the origin of textiles, I would question your statement that Neanderthals produced woven textiles. That evidence does not exist (although it is not inconceivable that Neanderthals could produce such material).
It is strange to me that some people here are more willing to accept ‘facts’ posted on extremely fringe websites than the scientific consensus of the overwhelming majority of experts in a field. There is a vast difference between having an open mind and disbelieving all mainstream science in favour of any old idea that someone, often with little understanding of the subject, thinks up. While scientists often are too dismissive of anomalous data, there is not some grand conspiracy whereby everything scientists say is a deceit and everything everyone else says is the truth. For one thing, most scientists I know typically have difficulty getting dressed in the morning, let alone coordinating some global conspiracy.
As for the question regarding ‘super intelligent talking dogs’: I just wish people who question the theory of evolution would take the time to actually bother to understand what it says before they try and critique it.
Having said all that, and despite being a confirmed atheist, I admit that evolution is not incompatible with at least some ideas of god.
Well put, things-in-the-woods! That is pretty much what I wanted to write up here when I logged on here tonight!
if you look into the author of dinosaursandhumans.org you might find out how intelligent he is. He is a doctor who has been studying the field for a very long time. Because he is shattering much of what modern science has accepted does not make him fringe or unbelievable. Often times it’s the person who has new a controversial discoveries who is denigrated by the status quo. Please try and be a little more open minded and look into it a little deeper.
Great! So good to see this psychotic fraud getting what he deserves.
“How can evolution allow one species to become fully static and others blossom into an entirely different form? You would think that Darwinian evolution would have demanded some kind of super dog or self aware feline to mutate along with man. ”
My answer:
Apes didn’t fail to become human. They succeeded in becoming modern apes.
Evolution happens by means of random mutations. The ones that offer selective advantage are passed on by the success of the animals that possess them. Deleterious ones get eliminated pretty quickly; ones that confer no advantage we just call “quirks.”
There is no necessity that evolution of a species will continue to some “higher plane,” whatever that is. Mutations just happen (or not); if they’re beneficial, that just happens too.
BTW: I see self-awareness as just another trait, like the fangs of the sabertooth. No certainty that’s working for us, or that it’ll save us from the sabertooth’s fate.
Dr. Hovind being in jail is not about taxes. It’s is about a way to shut Dr. Hovind up.
“Dr. Hovind being in jail is not about taxes. It’s is about a way to shut Dr. Hovind up.”
Oh please. Yeah, it’s a big conspiracy. You can’t openly flaunt the IRS and expect to get away with it. It doesn’t matter who you are. Al Capone was busted for tax evasion too.
Just like when the romans captured Jesus, Dr. Kent Hovind was arrested. It would be paradoxical if those people who arrested him believe in the Bible. I am very shocked but I know justice will step on the wicked.
Hovind wasnt perfect by avoiding taxes, but it doesnt mean anything changes with what he teaches. IF the earth is still living in a few hundred years im sure people will look back and laugh at the evolution stage, cause it truly is the most pathetic religous cult that the government once tried to fool the world with a fairy tale that we all evolved from rocks or apes or what ever garbage there coming up with now, just typing it makes me sick at how stupid it sounds.
The truth is the bible has never been wrong about anything even when it comes to proving science so far, Gods word never changes! the bible always has said in the old testament quoted in a verse that earth was round, but scientist today as dumb as they are think thats all coincidence. The chances of 8 prophecies coming true are exactly 10 000 000 000 000 000 00, thats 17 0’s. Jesus alone prophesied 300 and most of them have come to pass and yet to be coming!
Dont you evolutionist try to preach your garbage when the bible already told us the truth from the beginning and in the end you tend to realise 4000 years late! And if the bible has been right so far then isnt it logical to believe that mankind is only 6000 years old! sad thing is our belief system has no logic and wants to go against anything to do with gods laws and teachings. In the end it’s a reason to pay taxes, the government just wants the money coming in and evolution is a great way to back it up.
God said man will never find the answer until the day he arrives to judge the world. Some things are better not known just like you cant figure out the human brain, its beyond our level of understanding.
So you evolutionists keep digging and ripping us off but you wont find anything, and while your still alive why don’t you try researching and obeying something that really exists who has left laws for us to follow otherwise you and your evolution theories are all going down under and the world will follow. Its so sad we have the truth right in front of us for thousands of years but you choose to believe we evolved from apes and the earth was billions of years old garbage, If that was true the earth today wouldn’t be so perfect.