Sci Fi Investigates Bigfoot Tonight
Posted by: Craig Woolheater on October 18th, 2006
Sci Fi Investigates Bigfoot premiers tonight at 9 PM Central on the Sci Fi Channel. It airs again at 11 PM Central tonight as well.
The episode will air again Friday, October 20 at 12:00 AM (midnight) Central
Autumn Williams shares her thoughts with us here on Cryptomundo on the filming of this episode. At the link below you can watch a preview video clip of tonight’s episode.
Autumn Williams on Sci Fi Investigates: Bigfoot
Hi folks,
Just a quick note to announce the airing of Sci FI Investigates: Bigfoot tomorrow night, Wed. Oct 18th at 10:00 p.m. Please check your local listings to confirm air time.
About three months ago, Skye and I took the Sci Fi Investigates team on a 3-day expedition to a remote location here in Oregon to demonstrate field surveillance and research techniques. This hour-long program will chronicle portions of that trip.
I was about five months pregnant at the time of filming…the trip was exhausting, took more work than you could possibly imagine, but was enjoyable and sometimes humorous, too. As the investigator chosen to present field techniques and general information about the subject to the team, it was important to me to do so in a serious and credible manner. It’s my hope that the program ultimately reflects that and keeps the sensationalizing to a minimum.
For more information about the series, visit Sci Fi Investigates.
If you watch the show and care to share your comments, feel free to email me. However, please understand if I don’t reply…I’m now 7 1/2 months pregnant, battling a nasty bug of some sort and am on bed-rest for the time being. No more expeditions for me for a while! 🙂
Best,
Autumn Williams
Oregonbigfoot.com
Scott Spiker/SCI FI Channel
L to R: Rob Mariano, Deborah Dobrydney, Dr. W. Henner Fahrenbach, Rich Dolan, Dr. Bill Doleman.
Please click on the above image for a full-sized version.
Co-founder of Cryptomundo in 2005.
I have appeared in or contributed to the following TV programs, documentaries and films:
OLN's Mysterious Encounters: "Caddo Critter", Southern Fried Bigfoot, Travel Channel's Weird Travels: "Bigfoot", History Channel's MonsterQuest: "Swamp Stalker", The Wild Man of the Navidad, Destination America's Monsters and Mysteries in America: Texas Terror - Lake Worth Monster, Animal Planet's Finding Bigfoot: Return to Boggy Creek and Beast of the Bayou.
Looks like she is more concerned with letting everyone know she is pregnant than telling us any details about the program…
Autumn…
Take care of yourself and Tinyped…
Fuz
Thanks for the reminder, for those who may not be aware Autumn has a new DVD out which has excellent reviews….it’s definitely worth the modest price…JMHO
Regarding tonight’s special….it’s my understanding some of the most interesting segments may have been edited out…perhaps if enough folks contact Sci-Fi they will consider an expanded version…JMHO
seeing is believing…
ole bub and the dawgs
Does sweet Autumn have any footage of an actual bigfoot she observed? Seems sci-fi channel is the trend lately. Oregon has a better chance of finding something real, than sw Florida.
I agree wholeheartedly with Bambookid. She says more about her pregnancy than the show, or their “Findings”, if there was in fact anything legitimately found.
Of course, maybe that’s why she’s talking so much about her pregnancy, there may be little else to speak of.
I hope as much as the next Crypto hunter that something solid comes from this special, but with the way most of them are, I can’t say I have terribly high hopes.
Seeing is definitely believing, Bub. It’d just be nice if we could see a bit more than we usually do.
Hmmm, from my reading of this, she was putting forward that this wasn’t so much a real expedition with any hopes of finding anything as much as it was a demonstration of “field techniques” (her words) for the crew.
Maybe I’m a bit cynical, but if I were a legitimate researcher like Autumn I’d probably release a bit of explanation/damage control like this before a (potentially) highly edited tape of Smirkin’ Rob aired too.
Hi all,
“Damage control”… hmmm. There’s an idea. Trouble is, I’m under a confidentiality agreement with Sci-Fi, and there’s a clause in my contract which states something to the effect that I won’t besmirch the show or its producers.
That said, I obviously can’t say much about what did or did not happen. How the expedition will be portrayed is COMPLETELY out of my hands; I’m not responsible for the editing. I agreed to do the gig because it was going to be produced by the producers of NBC Dateline and was assured that it would be a serious investigation on the phenomenon – I did my best to portray the subject, and myself, as such. I had no idea who “Boston Rob” was, nor was I even told who the “team” would consist of until about two days before the expedition. References were made to a CSI, a paranormal investigator, an archaeologist and a “regular joe”.
Please keep in mind that this will, in all likelihood, NOT even REMOTELY resemble a documentary. Documentaries, as I’ve stated in the past, have been REPLACED by reality TV, in which nothing is really “real”; it’s edited for sensationalism and entertainment value only, and when the public says, “Aw… come ON!”… well, that’s what our media has come to, unfortunately. An average Joe is placed in a not-so-average situation, and average Joes all around the country glue themselves to their TV sets to live vicariously through him. It’s reality TV… NOT documentary TV.
During filming, There was an element of humor and what was referred to as “chemistry” between the team members. Certain team members were somewhat… “lighthearted”… about the whole thing and that caused me some concern while we were filming. I was assured that I, and the subject, would be taken seriously. I came away feeling like that may or may not be the case once the footage has been through the editing room. Again, if I was doing the editing, the sensationalism would be non-existent… which is WHY I produced my own documentary film recently, to portray the subject in the serious manner in which it deserves.
As for my above comments about being pregnant, I simply wanted to mention the fact that I was while we were doing the filming… I was exhausted and therefore limited in what I could do in the field – hopefully to head off the inevitable criticisms: “She should have done THIS!” or “She shouldn’t have done THAT.” The second comment about my state now was to head off potentially HUNDREDS of emails asking questions or wanting clarification. The above announcement is the exact one I sent out to my 6900 newsletter subscribers, and I was trying to avoid being inundated with emails.
As with Mysterious Encounters, I’m actually dreading the airing of this show. If its tone turns out to be tongue-in-cheek or condescending, you can bet that you will NEVER AGAIN see me involved in anything that I don’t have complete creative control over. People are simply too critical and I don’t care to stick my neck out there again for the sake of bringing this subject to the public.
Best,
Autumn Williams
Oregonbigfoot.com
Awe come on guys. Get off your grouchy horse and be happy for someone for once in your miserable lives. This is her first baby and she’s excited about it. Let it go.
Wow Amber, do all 6,900 newsletter subscribers pay monthly dues? Good for you! And good luck with the show and the little one!
Autumn,
Best wishes with your last trimester and the wee one.
Thank you very much for posting, especially under such circumstances. I had previously only known you from Mysterious Encounters, so I’m glad referred to it, and in the way that you did.
cabochris:
No, the monthly OregonBigfoot.com email newsletter is free. 🙂
– Autumn (Amber’s my sister. )
Thanks for the support, guys.
If Bigfoot exists Oregon could be the place. A young girl from that state used to cut my wife’s hair. Her father had a small ranch in the boondocks and she claims her daddy saw one of those big hirsute non human primates strolling on his property. However, no camera.
So, how ’bout some post show comments for those of us who missed it.
Autumn looked lovely as always, and I didn’t even notice she were pregnant. Best wishes, and I hope she gets well soon. The show was lame. No offense to “Boston Rob,” but your fifteen was up long ago and it’s time to move on. One interesting point, every single time someone tries to show “how easy” it is to fake a “good Bigfoot video” it only goes to show how difficult it really is.
One more thing to note, 20 minutes hike from the truck with a film crew isn’t alone in the deep woods.
The work of Dr. F and Autumn Williams are worthwhile and worth our time. People like them and Craig should be supported doing their own documentaries, reality programming, and “investigations.” However, this show does not seem to have too many redeeming reasons for existing.
See Boston Rob Balks On Bigfoot for other Cryptomundo readers’ comments.
I’ve got 7 minutes left to go before I see it. After I do, I’ll critique.
“Autumn looked lovely as always, and I didn’t even notice she were pregnant.”
Thank you for the kind words. 🙂
“One more thing to note, 20 minutes hike from the truck with a film crew isn’t alone in the deep woods.”
The location was deep in the Cascade mountains, along a dead-end tertiary road. The parking area along the road was a 20-minute hike in. Not another soul around for miles… we were a 40-minute drive from the nearest small town. I’d chosen this location because Skye and I had heard what sounded like screams while on a hike about a month earlier. It was VERY remote… too remote for a camera crew and all the equipment I had to bring in. 🙂 I’m keeping the locale confidential for now, because it’s one of my target research areas.
“The work of Dr. F and Autumn Williams are worthwhile and worth our time… However, this show does not seem to have too many redeeming reasons for existing.”
Thank you, Loren. I haven’t seen the show yet, but I’m afraid your last statement might be accurate. It was originally pitched to me as an “investigative news” program, from the producers of NBC Dateline. Not the same thing as a reality TV program.
Autumn
I watched the show tonight, and I gotta say, well, it could have been much better. After all, it was on the Sci Fi channel (Science FICTION). So, what can we expect? I do feel though, that Autumn Williams, as well as Dr. Fahrenbach, lended credibility to the program. I feel that perhaps Rich Dolan was perhaps the only one who took the investigation semi-seriously.
Autumn Williams, such a lovely young lady. AND a serious Sasquatch researcher as well. Somebody certainly is a lucky man 😉 I wish her a speedy recovery from her illness, and the best of luck w/her little one on the way. Regards, Kevin Bentley
Congrats Autumn on the pregnancy.
Hope all remain healthy and happy…
BUT… the Sci-Fi program was for entertainment purpose only, nothing scientific there.
Oh well… they gotta try to make a buck.
Loren Coleman said:
“The work of Dr. F and Autumn Williams are worthwhile and worth our time. People like them and Craig should be supported doing their own documentaries, reality programming, and “investigations.” However, this show does not seem to have too many redeeming reasons for existing.”
I agree. This show wasn’t fiction, and it certainly wasn’t a documentary… why did they bother to do a show like this when they could have done a well-crafted and balanced documentary? Well-done documentaries are very entertaining and it would have been a feather in SciFi’s cap.
Maybe Loren with all the millions he rakes in from this blog can start his own channel, CryptoTV or something.
(That’s just a joke BTW, referring to something that was said in another thread here. I am well aware that nobody gets any compensation for hits on this blog… so don’t crucify me LOL. But a Crypto Channel WOULD be a good idea… I think if it had quality programming it would attract millions of steady viewers)
My husband and I watched the show last night and thought Autumn did a wonderful job! I would not have been able to tolerate Boston Rob at my fifth-month of pregnancy the way she did, she was calm, patient and most of all, PROFESSIONAL! She took charge and really tried to keep it serious. My husband commented how really inconsiderate it was of the rest of the group (the sci-fi cast) that they had to be told to do the laborous jobs (setting up camp, etc.) when they could see a pregnant researcher shouldn’t be doing those things! Chivalry is dead….. how sad!
Anyway, get well soon, Autumn and on behalf of my hubby and myself, congratulations and good luck to you and Skye on your precious little one!
How about a “Crypto Nite” on the Discovery Channel?
So, let’s see what we’ve learned from this dismal display.
First, you’ve obviously gotta be OUT there, waaaay out there, to be where the creatures are, a major effort in itself, unless you just happen to live nearby.
A search of Bigfoot report archives reveals that there are “out there” areas everywhere, so report review and analysis is primary to our expedition’s success (otherwise the Great Northwest will soon be inundated with wandering bands of avid trekkers).
Then, you’ve gotta move deeper into your chosen area, as far away from human interference as you can get, and you’ve gotta convey all your gear along with you.
Proper attention to backpacks and gear bags can help, but maybe there’s a wheeled push-cart of some kind, like an Indian travois, that two people could maneuver along the trail carrying heavy equipment and supplies for an extended stay?
Most tents are very easy to assemble, but there are many types, and novices may need assistance. One person could help many get set up quickly, without time-wasting and frustration.
Fruit and vegetables make good bait, and are less expensive than meat, although an omnivorous beast may be drawn to the site more quickly by meat’s aroma.
Photographic and audio recording equipment should perhaps survey ALL areas around the campsite itself, from first fire (or even from arrival to departure), as ‘Squatch is a curious fellow, and is frequently drawn to all the sensory activity.
Images captured by Autumn’s sophisticated motion-sensitive digital camcorder were great ~ did you see the deer and that tiny squirrel? A properly equipped ($$$) expedition would have those cameras deployed all around the campsite, and sound-recording would be continual: “Wait – did you hear that roar/howl/grunt/screech/thud? No? Oh well, turn on your pocket memo-corder, maybe we will hear it again.” just doesn’t cut it.
The night- and thermal-vision equipment on the program was terrific, too, and should absolutely be a part of every excursion into any deeeep, darrrk forest habitat.
(Walkie-talkies and headsets should also be employed constantly, even when everyone’s sitting around the campfire ~ never can tell when a sighting or sound may occur, and it’s critical to be able to communicate in a whisper as you move to investigate.)
What else? Personal stuff? Okay: fun and games and other childish disruptions should be kept to a minimum, and outright skeptics, with their left-brained negativity, only distract from open-minded sensitivity and observations; they have no place on an expen$ive and exhausting expedition.
Control of EVERY aspect of the event is critical; data-gathering with immediate analysis is of paramount importance; with today’s real-time digital gear, we have the opportunity to maximize the results and react efficiently.
If we detect a motion in the woods on a video review, we can look there for tracks or other sign RIGHT NOW, and relocate cameras to cover approaches to that specific area. Cryptid research should be active, not passive.
Autumn’s website has the equipment resources and REAL documentary DVDs and report archives and everything we need, and there’s an “out there” near you.
What are you waiting for?
Excellent comments Fuzzy….I absolutely agree…the question now becomes how to fund such a venture…seriously.
Autumn showed us how on her most recent DVD…what are WE waiting for?
No Bucks…No bigfoot…
ole bub and the dawgs
Autumn here again. Our from under her rock. LOL
I agree, Fuzzy – great comments. $$$ is the issue with most research endeavors, including my own. The documentary was an excellent way to obtain equipment sponsorships, and was one of the PRIMARY reasons I decided to go through all the hassle of filming the doc. It took 6 months of contacting sponsors and “selling” them on the idea. Luckily, with the website and the doc (and Volume II on the way) I’ve been able to exchange exposure for their products for the products themselves… and I was able to somewhat pick and choose what I wanted, so I can stand behind the products that I recommend. All sponsors are listed on the website and I use their equipment in the field EVERY chance I get.
The Argus 3 thermal imaging camera was, in both instances, a loaner, unfortunately. I don’t have the bucks to buy one, but if I could have ONE piece of equipment that I don’t currently own, THAT would be the one. Any forest creature’s camoflauge works nearly as well at night in infrared lighting as it does during the day, but NOTHING can hide its heat signature and you can see for YARDS into deep forest without a light with that technology.
On another note, I’ve uploaded the complete sound file that I recorded that night during the Sci-Fi expedition to the members section on Oregonbigfoot.com – And, PLEASE, before anyone starts grousing again about the $4.95 per month fee for the members’ section, remember that I work VERY hard to maintain the site, the free newsletter, etc. and bandwidth/monthly server bills are expensive. 🙂
I watched the show last night and my first thought was why did they bother to show it? We didn’t see much that was old, and we didn’t see anything that was new.
Maybe next time…
The episode was a predictable fluff piece. There was a great surprise to me though and that was Autumn. The program exposed a lot of viewers to someone who is sincere, knowledgable and credible. Too often people identified with this type of endeavor are depicted as odd, crazy, hoaxers etc.
I think even skeptics of Bigfoot would agree that at least Autumn honestly believes that there is something there.
So I rate the show a plus since I now know who Autumn is and those beautiful landscapes!
I watched the show. All I kept thinking of when they were faking the film was, what kind of idiot goes way out into the woods and puts a Bigfoot suit on trying to prove how easy it would be to hoax a video? Is this guy nut’s or what?
All it would take is one shot and his skeptical day’s are over.
I really can’t believe Autumn approved of doing this. Or did she?
Don’t these people realize that some people believe the only way to prove these animals exist is to shoot one and bring in the dead body.
To be running around deep in the woods in a Bigfoot suit is just plain stupid. What would they have done if they would of heard a shot when he went tumbling over? Bet they wouldn’t of been laughing. (Even though I laughed my butt off when that happened) I thought, now there is a graceful Bigfoot for ya.
Anyway, keep up the good work Autumn. You Rock! Maybe one of these days or years the world will have it’s proof.
Hopefully it’s not a dead body.
Forgot to add the first-place winner of the all-time best description of what a Bigfoot smells like goes to Dr. Fahrenbach:
“Imagine a bum who hasn’t bathed for six months. Now stick your nose into his crotch.”
Fantastic! 😀
“I really can’t believe Autumn approved of doing this. Or did she?”
They wanted to see how “easy” it would be to fake a Sasquatch film. It wasn’t my place to approve or disapprove, since it was THEIR production, though I knew that the end result would be less than compelling, so I had no problem with it. If they were trying to fake footage to PASS OFF as real, that would have been another matter entirely.
As far as Rob being in any “danger” during the stunt, it was done under controlled conditions, out in the open, with the team, myself and about 15 crew standing around and cameras everywhere. We were in a remote location with folks down at the trailhead to ward off intruders. Can’t get much safer than that, I’d say. 🙂
Autumn
At least in the Memorial Day footage, the subject wasn’t wildly flailing it’s arms while running and seemed to be in control.
Though when Boston Rob busted his behind, I did get a large smile on my face.
Short of finding Bigfoot, that Rob guy getting shot would have been the only thing that could have saved that episode. Just a graze would suffice. Someone should mention that to the producers.
By the way, you’re most welcome Autumn, and I raised quite a stink with OLN when Mysterious Encounters went off the air.
Skipped CSI N.Y. to watch it. Not quite as entertaining.
MrInspector: That same thought crossed my mind also, someone with the skills should take the footage of him running in the suit and add a rifle shot sound effect right before he falls.
I’ve watched the 1st 2 episodes of this program and have already decided that I won’t be watching it anymore. At least with MythBusters, the comedy feels more real.
The show was silly and very poorly done! The Scifi experts behaved like children. I could have done 10 times better! Yet I guess it did have some entertainment value and I did laugh out loud at the prank calling scene (Autumn was upset cute!) and when Studley fell in the monkey suit!
Drs. Meldrum and Fahrenbach were wonderful! Mostly though, I was taken with Autumn. She was the real Star in the show! This is the first time that I have actually seen Autumn in action and must say she came across as very Professional! There is no doubt that Autumn is a serious Bigfoot researcherette! As such, I will purchase her new DVD. Good job Autumn!
Despite the show being somewhat of a joke, in a strange kind of way it helpes to prove that Bigfoot is real! Think about this. It is 2006 and those Scifi experts tried to film a Bigfoot hoax. What they created with a modern video camera and costume stank! One would think for the show they would at least have gotten something good? Ok, from a far distance and for a few seconds, one might have wondered what that creature was. But the closer they got- like when Bigfoot was running, it became clear it was a hoax! If one compares their fake attempt with the 67 Patterson film, it becomes real clear just how good the Patterson film actually is! The Patterson film has so much more detail and dimention! To me this is just more proof that the Patterson film is of a real Bigfoot. Plus the fact that Studley fell down twice filming the hoax makes the Memorial Day film more real!
I have an English Bulldog (Lola-Belle) that makes some of the stangest sounds I have ever heard come out of a dog. She does it when she wants something and can’t have it.
Sometimes it sounds like the chitter chatter audio tape Autumn played on the played on the show.
Sometimes I wonder if what people are hearing are noises like these being recorded and played back. But then I think who would waste their time doing something like that. They would have to know people are gonna be out there for one thing.
Maybe Bigfoot are taping US and playing it backwards and laughing their shaggy butts off.
Wouldn’t that make a cool commercial?
“There is no doubt that Autumn is a serious Bigfoot researcherette!”
A female researcher is not a “researcherette”. To says so is disrespectful. A researcher who is female is no less a researcher than her mail colleagues. It’s the quality of the research and the dedication of the researcher that counts, not the gender.
Hey kittenzs- Lighten up! Who are you to imply to the world that I am disrespectful? It is you who is disrespectful to/of me! Autumn happens to be female. She happens to be cute. As I said earlier she is also Professional. “Researcherette” was intended as a compliment and nothing else. I would say it again. You should have asked first and not put your opinions into my words.
In my eyes Autumn is as competent as any person and more-so than me or you, man or woman or whatever, when it comes to Bigfot research! You obviously did not read how I praised her. I do not believe I should have watch my Ps and Qs for overly sensitive readers!
Please do not turn this Blog into a “Gender Equal Rights” debate! This is about Bigfoot for me. What is it for you? After all, you certainly did not come to the rescue of Boston Rob and all the poor comments made about him- why not?
kittenz- is not a cat a cat?
OK folks, this is about the Sci Fi Investigates Bigfoot episode, not about arguing semantics. Keep it about the show and let’s not make it personal.
I’m sure that Autumn can weigh in on how she would feel about being called a Bigfoot researcherette if she feels like it.
Laugh all you want, but the suffix “-ette” is a diminutive, and a serious researcher should not be referred to as a “researcherette”.
Of course anyone can see that the original researcherette comment was made in a joking tone, and was intended as a compliment to Autumn.
My comment was simply intended to remind everyone that female researchers are every bit as serious, competent and dedicated as any of their male colleagues. Plus they also have to overcome generations of subtle and sometimes not so subtle gender bias. It took guts and determination for a woman to make this film while coping with the physical demands of pregnancy.
Okay, okay, I’ll weigh in so we can get back on track. LOL
On one hand, I wish to be taken seriously, YES, and the fact that I’m female (and blonde) works against me from time to time. I’d prefer people focus on my work and not my face or gender. I take this subject, and my place within it, seriously. I’d rather be regarded in terms of my contributions to this field, just like anyone else male OR female… we all have to earn respect.
However, I don’t believe Cabochris intended any disrespect by his comment. Some may feel his choice of words was misguided. We can sit all day and discuss semantics – whether Chris meant it as diminutive, or an old-school “female” version of the term, in humor, as a form of derision… instead, I tend to look at the INTENT, and I believe his intent was to refer to me kindly and affectionately. If it’s a left-handed compliment… well, we all stick our foot in our mouth on occasion. 🙂
Kittenz, I appreciate your support. Being a woman in a field mostly dominated by men is often frustrating. Filming a show while being 5 months pregnant WAS definitely a challenge. And being exhausted most of the time, I’m sure you can understand my desire to pick my battles. I simply chose to let this one go. 🙂
Best,
Autumn
Agreed, and I’ll shut up now. As I have said, I do believe that the original comment was a light-hearted remark intended as a compliment.
Autumn, it’s glad to see you on TV again. I was extremely peeved when OLN cut off Mysterious Encounters. I do agree with everyone else on the fact that Boston Rob is a complete idiot. He actually seemed to think that his attempt could have been passed off as a hoax! Anyway, I hope your child will grow up to be as much as an inspiration as you are.
fuzzy says, “How about a “Crypto Nite” on the Discovery Channel?”
Between History, NationalGeo, Discovery, and Travel channels there is a Crypto night at least every two weeks, and sometimes more than one. However, I have noticed a trend amongst the Discovery Networks to present a skeptical case in the guise of a serious documentary. Travel Channel seems to deliver the most open-minded views. They run their’s about once a month on Fridays. This Friday is Bigfoot day I think, starts around 6 or 7PM.
For the record, my research indicates that the most likely place to locate one of these animals won’t be in the Pacific Northwest, but in the south-east OK, north-east TX area. I’ll tell you why. Predators and terrain, not to mention all of the sightings. The Pacific Northwest can be very imposing and unforgiving. Although it might be ideal habitat for Sasquatch, I’m afraid the same isn’t true for us. Think of it as a contest between you and the animal, any good general will tell you, where you fight can be the most important factor of any battle, same thing. Pick a spot where you have more working for you than against you. This area has one of the higher number of sightings, the winters aren’t as cruel, the terrain is less threatening, it has resources that are much more readily accessible. All in all a much better choice for an investigation of this magnitude. And by my estimates, if the animal is real, it would take about two years of constant field work and continual presence to expect reasonable results. It would also take a staff of about 5 to 10 to handle logistics, 25 to 40 trained field personel, a number of horses/mules, several hundred 0 LUX trapcams, communications network, intranet (that will require a few tech guys). I’d say you’re looking at about 5 to 12 million (very conservative estimate) for a serious research effort with any real chance for success. Otherwise, it’s just a roll of the dice.
It just seems like a lot of money to prove a point to a bunch of close-minded jer-… I mean, people. Truthfully, would it really be better to prove the existence of this animal than to have it’s mystery as a mythical creature? Legends are, well, legendary! Look at the gorilla, it was once a mythical beast. It was the object of mystery, an enigma. Now you can go to the zoo any day of the week and see one playing with it’s genitals behind plexiglass. Is that really and truly what we want for Patty?