Ketchum Publicity Causing More Haters To Enter The Fray
Posted by: Loren Coleman on December 11th, 2012
David Olenick’s art is remarkably on target this fall.
Have you noticed that with the increase in all the news and online attention to Bigfoot DNA matters, thanks to the premature release of the Ketchum “info,” the Hater Generation has jumped in, with both hands typing, to leave their “insights,” all over the social media? This is not about the Skeptics outside the field. This has more to do with the people inside so-called Bigfoot hunting, Sasquatch studies, and hominology.
The yelling, back and forth, between the pro-Ketchum camp, the anti-Ketchum groups, and those who wish to just wait, is at an all-time high. Some of it focuses on the pro-human believers and Bigfoot contactees versus the Gigantopithecus or Paranthropus theorists, regarding the origins of Bigfoot. Other haters are more crudely delivering their tweets, emails, blog comments, and Facebook feedback on a variety of topics that might be impacted by Ketchum’s supposed findings.
I guess I am firmly in the anthropologist John Hawks’ clade, reflected in his comment on the Ketchum DNA “study”: “No data, no discovery.”
It took a long time to build the pyramids. This kind of research should not be rushed.
But it is getting so strange that I am even beginning to hear immature challenges again, out of left field, regarding my interest in the observed possible anatomy and breeding habits of Sasquatch.
This week, for instance, an upset individual left this dig directed towards me, via a comment, at one of the Bigfoot blogs: “Is it true you wrote a bunch of pulp sex books involving Bigfoots?”
Ha ha.
I would be a rich man if I had. But I didn’t. I do admit to having written a chapter, “Sex and the Single Sasquatch,” in my 2003 book, Bigfoot! The True Story of Apes in America.
Of course, that chapter took to task Sasquatch researchers who were avoiding the collection of the total biological details from eyewitnesses, Native lore, and other traditional sources on the unknown hairy hominoids reported from North America.
It appears that some folks still think such research is inappropriate? Or is a great half-humor, half-truth “hater” comment?
I thought things might have changed in the last decade. Maybe not. The Ketchum stuff is bringing out the worst in some people.
What do you think? Comments welcome below.
Meanwhile, if you wish to order David Olenick’s art, prints, and more, please click here.
About Loren Coleman
Loren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading living cryptozoologist. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct).
Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013. He returned as an infrequent contributor beginning Halloween week of 2015.
Coleman is the founder in 2003, and current director of the International Cryptozoology Museum in Portland, Maine.
I don’t see much of a difference from now than when it first came about two years or so ago. Ok so it is bigger, more people involved but what folks are saying are saying the same stuff. The entire thing began with controversy, and still invites controversy with how it was mishandled. It’s not going to end, until it sputters out after people bored of it.
i see some distinct groups of people here:
– those who blindly and enthusiastically are on the side of the “this is an historic result!!!”, believe that anything contrary to that is some conspiracy against bigfoot, science, ms. ketchum, humanity, rational thought, and civility in general
– those who are blindly and enthusiastically on the side of “this is BS!!!” and believe that any evidence to the contrary is simply bad science
– those who stand for the integrity of science and wish for this to play out and are open enough to place faith in the scientific method and believe that if it is followed, the result will be satisfying no matter what
– those who stand for the integrity of science and, from the outside, believe that every step of the process, as executed by ketchum and her associates, looks like a foolish circus and can’t bear to even think that she may have discovered something due to the ludicrous handling of the situation and her relative lack of academic credentials
The problem is Loren..”we” the “haters” 🙂 have watched the claims coming out of the ketchum camp for years..and nothing else.
We have also noted the ability of some people too be so confused that they truly believe a claim of “amazing dna results” and actual published/peer reviewed Dna results are the same thing.
How is that possible.??
At least I have the integrity to call BS on all of this and will have no problem coming here and admitting I was wrong if this work is published in a peer reviewed journal.
But…my problem with many ketchum fans is..what If the reverse happens?
I predict that Ketchum will cut and paste some garbage (the dna work) on her facebook page and will never publish anything..and she will use the excuse she was blocked from publishing.
She will be questioned and go into a brain snap..and then say she has more data but will not release it until a future date so people can not criticise her work..and then she will have some form of meltdown and vanish..
And if this happens..will her most prolific fan base come here with a mea culpa..?????
My second prediction is..her most ardent fans..will NOT even have the integrity to admit they were suckered..
Funnily enough..some of her most vocal and aggressive fans…share an inverse relationship with being scientifically illiterate and their belief in Ketchum coming through “with the goods”.
Which is not a great sign. 🙂
I HATE that word, “hater”! It’s so GROSS!!
asecretcountry
Well you have only been waiting less than 4 years I and many others have waited and watched much longer-since 1967 when we saw the p/g film on BBC news and have watched painfully slow progress since. Many have got out in the field and made their contribution too.
There is clearly a prima facia case for a large hominid (?) running about N America and elsewhere. The land is awash with evidence but unfortunately not people with enough security or vision to grasp the wonderful, historic and exciting opportunity that gives ! In addition there is evidence in literature going back thousands of years. Those of a scientific bent are easily misled by sceptics whose opposition is not scientific if the same critical analysis is applied to their output.
Dr Ketchum has the guts to tackle the hugh problem of dna miracle and deserves massive support by anyone who has an interest in Saquatch in particular. She follows on from Todd disotell a scoftic who found nothing in 18 years of testing and Proff Sykes who was not able to identify one of the samples- with a plump hair follicle-he was given from the asia. It is generally misreported that the sample turned out to be bear (he stated this himself in 20/8/11 at the cryptozoology soceties weird weekend-on u tube ). So in my book Dr ketchum even at this stage comes out a heroine !
That should have read……. professor Sykes was NOT able to identify one of his samples, the one with the plump hair follical from a reported yeti site. This has generally and wrongly been reported as being identified as a bear. He gave reasons for this failure to identify but even so it is very surprising. Dr Sykes explained this on 20/8/11 at the fortean cryptozoologicals soc weird weekend in the UK.-its on u tube
I was attacked by haters/trolls when i said that Ketchum’s paper failed peer review, these people are very strange, they act like you have attacked their religion or something, perhaps it is some form of psychological problem? I would like Sasquatch to be proven but only by real proof and real science not hopeful wannabees who seem to have problems and attack when their so called belief system is threatened.
Thanks to Loren for sorting out the problem quickly.
Hopefully humans will never find them! The hating back and forth is completely human!
“And if this happens..will her most prolific fan base come here with a mea culpa..?????”
Ketchup aside, I can’t wait until the day the sasquatch is confirmed. Boooy are some people going to look…well, many words for it, but I wouldn’t want to be any of them.
It is as heated a subject as US Politics. You have your Tea Party/Conservatives (Giganto theorists), your Democrats (hybrid human), Dennis Kucinich (Alien/Bigfoot theory), your Anarchists (Bigfoot is fake), and your far, far left liberals (Bigfoot Inter Dimensional Beings). In the end you just hope for the best and that this fledgling study takes the right course to finally solving this mystery.
marcodufour: So it’s back to squatchaparzzi running through the woods with their smelly, loud gamecams? I am of the opinion that science is totally ill-suited for the job. We don’t need no steenking scientists – WE NEED AMBASSADORS!
faron27: I could not agree more. Actually, I hope the SCIENTISTS (those inhuman sansabitches) never find them. Lord help the Bigfoots of this world if they ever do! How many years until they’re locked on reservations, planting turnips? I’ll shed the rest of my blood to keep that from happening.Openhearted people – I hope a few get to have interactions.
And yep… the “hating” (politically correctspeak for disagreement) IS perfectly human. Just like most of us.
When the need arises for a Friends of Bigfoot Defense Force, I’ll be there. If I’m alive. Hey, maybe even if I’m dead!
I consider myself a wait and see guy who thinks the totality of the evidence is more supportive of the existence of Sasquatch than not. Like Loren, my problem is with the self-appointed arbiters of science (with no scientific qualifications whatsoever) who take the very unscientific stance that any research into the matter is “not science”.
Wrong big time..
Never assume anything..
I have waited since around that date as well 🙂
We are talking about Ketchums claims.
Why do people keep vainly trying to move the goal posts.?
Great..when the Ketchum DNA train crashes..you will be here to admit you were wrong on that??
Don’t answer..no one else does.
But gosh golly..”we are about to find something”..
Wrong..there are too many people that don’t hide from the previous 30 years of claims and nothing…and are more than aware of the problems in these areas.
If reality is a lack of vision..then god help us. 🙂
THere is no reason to try and swing this post to problems in the fields of sciences per se.So don’t try.
It has zero to do with this topic/thread.
And you know this because..??
Ketchum..at this stage..in this reality..still..has nothing.
If that makes me a hater..for dealing with the reality..then so be it.
Thats what scares me..she has made the whole field look even more ridiculous.
She is a heroine/godsend to the sceptic community for this fact.
And you think she is helping your “cause” as well.?
Look, the supporters are already trying to softly ditch ketchup..”it did not matter will be the new meme” 🙂
The old..”just you wait..one day..we will have something”..has been said..since the Patterson footage.. 🙂
It aint looking good tiger is it..
The picture isn’t blurry enough, so it’s just not realistic. 🙂
I don’t think people should get so upset with each other, nobody has been kicked in the shins, therefore there’s no reason to be angry. Open discussion and debate is a wonderful thing, being open minded doesn’t mean you’re not intelligent, it means you’re even more likely to learn new things. What if bigfoot isn’t real? Hasn’t all the mystery and wonder been fun? What if bigfoot is real? How amazing we’ve all been logged into our computers while they watch us through the window giggling because we don’t even notice them! 🙂
if this is such a big study… why not release it and do things per REAL scientific protocol?
why all this stupid nonsense?
It all just WREAKS of fakeness and non-professionalism.
@asecretcountry. Aside from the Ketchum project I am curious on your following thoughts…
1. Patterson/Gimlin – real or fake
2. Cripplefoot Cast
3. Casts confirmed to be non-human unknown primate by Jimmy Chilcutt (Forensic investigator/fingerprint technician for Conroe Police Department)
4. Sierra Nevada Sounds / Snohomish Howl (bfro has these audios). Spent my share of time in deep woods…curious what you think they are.
5. Ape Canyon
Ain’t no “hating” hereabouts… just uncivil discourse. It’s the best kind, if you’re trying to hash mattrer out. If anyone gets offended here, take some time out. Getting to the meat of the matter isn’t always pretty.
When you “see” disagreement… that’s just what smart people DO.
I would just add, for those who are students of the great body of Sasquatch evidence, the absence of any release of data from Dr. Ketchum matters not in the least. If her findings, once documented, run opposite that evidence, well then yeah…we’d have a real riddle to sort out. But, apparently they will not, and we won’t. I’d be very dissapointed if her methods and data never saw the light of day, but will that non-event have some impact on my view of all the other evidence? Nah.
To all those getting so exercised about this, remember: Nothing has happened. Diary your file up to the last week in January and see if we know anything more by then. Dr. Sykes’ research may even be released by then (although it now seems he is taking the holidays off), which might make a comparison necessary and very exciting. In the meanwhile, spend your productive time reading the encounter reports on the BFRO site. Those deserve your attention a whole lot more, in my opinion.
Alamo/Pam: couldn’t say it better.
(Goodfoot: I’m not so sure you aren’t on the money either, at least from the sasquatch’s standpoint.)
asecretcountry: given how it’s been done the last 50 years, you aren’t surprised are you? I’m sure not. Actually it is looking rather good, because the approach has finally changed. But I’ll let you do the research. I already have.
(Which is why I have zero money on Ketchum. That ain’t where to put it.)
slappy: I’m a mix of these two viewpoints:
– those who stand for the integrity of science and wish for this to play out and are open enough to place faith in the scientific method and believe that if it is followed, the result will be satisfying no matter what
– those who stand for the integrity of science and, from the outside, believe that every step of the process, as executed by ketchum and her associates, looks like a foolish circus and can’t bear to even think that she may have discovered something due to the ludicrous handling of the situation and her relative lack of academic credentials
Let’s mix them. Here’s me.
– those who stand for the integrity of science and wish for this to play out and are open enough to place faith in the scientific method and believe that if it is followed, the result will be satisfying no matter what. That said, they believe that every step of the process, as executed by ketchum and her associates, looks like a foolish circus, and are wondering what this is going to mean in terms of the execution of the process, to say nothing of the seriousness that will be attached to the results, whatever they may be.
DWA:Squatch don’t need no money. Which is a beautiful thing, right?
Ploughboy: you too, thumbs up. This isn’t going to change anything I think about this, one way or another.
(Until you show me a DNA sample connected to a type specimen, all it is is a DNA sample. Still need the specimen.)
When you are done with the BFRO database, move on to the TBRC database and the John Green database. Anyone who doesn’t consider that evidence doesn’t understand what the word means, whether they know that or not.