Update: Moneymaker Speaks Out About Finding Bigfoot: “Swamp Ape”
Posted by: Craig Woolheater on June 7th, 2011
Matt Moneymaker has posted the following on the BFRO Blue Forum, as as he stated in Loren’s post:
Craig W. will pass along what Cliff posts, and he has my permission to pass along what we say on the Blue Forum.Matt Moneymaker
He was responding to questions about the thermal video.
The heat blip in the meadow was a horse. I said so on camera. I talked about the horse for a good long while. I figured the producers would edit it honestly, but they didn’t. Their editing made it look as though I did not identify the figure before it ran off. I did. It was a horse. They inserted lines from other scenes where I talk about something running away before I could figure out what it was.
As I said before, the producers and editors only care about entertainment. They don’t care about what we care about, but we have very limited influence for these first episodes … and we had zero influence over the editing.
That wasn’t the only dishonest thing they did in the name of entertainment. At one point I read some VO lines they had written as transition explanations. I read it out loud the first time and read through a line saying “overwhelming evidence” … then I stopped and said, “We gotta redo that. I’m going to say ‘a collection of evidence’ because it’s NOT ‘overwhelming evidence’.” They taped me saying it my way, and I emphasized to use that version instead. What did they do? They used the “overwhelming evidence” version.
So they kinda screwed me over on those two things. They certainly taught me that I can’t read VO lines out loud before I’ve read them through silently first and then changed them on paper before reading them out loud. They’re showing us what they are capable of. They’re showing the whole cast how much we cannot trust them at all, as I’ve been saying from the beginning.Matt Moneymaker
Co-founder of Cryptomundo in 2005.
I have appeared in or contributed to the following TV programs, documentaries and films:
OLN's Mysterious Encounters: "Caddo Critter", Southern Fried Bigfoot, Travel Channel's Weird Travels: "Bigfoot", History Channel's MonsterQuest: "Swamp Stalker", The Wild Man of the Navidad, Destination America's Monsters and Mysteries in America: Texas Terror - Lake Worth Monster, Animal Planet's Finding Bigfoot: Return to Boggy Creek and Beast of the Bayou.
Wow…sure appreciate the honesty. But, I bet your producers might visit this site too. Maybe you’re all done shooting your episodes and they’ve got a hit, so no-one cares what you or any of the cast say? Just seems pretty unguarded. All the best intentions here man…
If they are going to just be editing to make things “entertaining” and leave out the “truth” I want no part of it. I watch shows like this to be informed not to be bamboozled.
Ummm… yeah… Its difficult to take what he says here as sincere when just a few days ago he was bashing readers here and backing what was shown on TV and backing Animal Planet and the producers. He’s pulled a complete 180 here.
If the producers are editing things and basically butchering the show without the team’s knowledge, then Moneymaker needs to lawyer up and do something about it. As the “stars” of the show, the team and their representation do have some creative control over their image and what the show does or may do to their personal and professional image. Either that or they foolishly signed away any and all creative control of their image on the show and the content therein. I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt for this whole fiasco, but its really difficult to look past a lot of what has transpired so far.
My advice to Moneymaker and the rest of BFRO? First, learn some humility and grow some thicker skin. You are involved in a field of study that isn’t held in very high regard within the scientific community. You have to expect a good deal of criticism. Next, be honest from the get go. What should Matt have done in response to viewer reactions after finding out about the “edits”? He should have just been honest and he should have apologized on behalf of all of the members of BFRO. Finally, they should lawyer up and do something to save face and salvage/protect their reputations as bigfoot researchers. All of these things should have been and should be common sense. As more and more info comes out, it seems as though they got excited about being offered a show and they just signed on the dotted line without reading the fine print. They might as well have sold their souls to the devil.
Wow … this Kahil clown is intent on rewriting history and spreading distortions as much as he can … and all because I called him a jealous Gomer. I musta hit a funny bone there. Maybe it was a little too close to the truth.
Not long after the episodes aired I began setting the record straight on various matters. Right from the start I openly said that some sounds were inserted. Does that sound like I was defending the producers? I pretty clearly explained what happened, and then went into further detail about it. But this Kahil clown says I did a 180 … ??
I was bashing liars on this forum like him. There’s a few, but he has distinguished himself as the biggest fountain of lies and distortions. He is trying to distort what happened, but fortunately plenty of you were following it and you know how full of crap he is. Talk about destroying credibility … Toads like Kahil are their own worst enemies.
MM
If the producers are being dishonest with what you say and do, why not simply quit? It’s making you and this field look bad. The general public will never believe that these creatures truly exist if every time an episode of “Finding Bigfoot” airs and then the findings and/or footage has to be clarified following that.
Oh, yeah, Mr. Moneymaker’s collecting a nice paycheck from Discovery Networks. That’s why he won’t quit.
Wow, Matt you just do not get it do you? You were doing good with stopping at calling people names and for coming on after the 2nd show and telling your side. But here you go again!
You cannot blame Kahil or anyone for saying you’re doing a 180. You were and it was a good thing, but you had to go back to name calling and showing that you cannot stop yourself. Really thought after the first show and what happened, you would learn to have a thicker skin and control your fingers from attacking others.
Matt, we are truly trying to like you and your show, but you are making it Impossible.
Matt,
That is really too bad, do you think at all things will change? Makes you wonder how much they’ve altered for other shows they’ve done.
Matt, you sold out yourself and your life’s research. I’m certain you watch television. It should not be surprising, then, that Animal Planet would edit your work in the field for their own gain. It’s easy to complain about your boss after you have collected his check. Now you come across as a bitter, unlikeable brute by going after fans like Kahil. You got your money. You made a mockery of Bigfoot research. You didn’t find anything. Accept your failure, tuck your tail, and move on.
Matt, if you are reading this, which I hope you are, you need to know that all of us, know that Finding Bigfoot is a edited show and that the producers have made this show for people who have absolutely no knowledge of Bigfoot or the Skunk Ape. Your show is designed to educate these people on what this animals might be or where they are located. Nothing more.
Like it or not, Cryptomundo is part of the your show’s fan base. We are the ones that are going to go and talk about this show to other people and promote it.
I understand your frustration with the show’s editing, and you need to be proactive and be ready for these comments. There are meaner critics than us. You really should to do some damage control with the bloggers on this site, you need Cryptomundo in the corner.
Each week let us know how you felt about the episode and relate some of the stuff that didn’t get shown. You seem to have burned some bridges in the past, but that is nothing that can’t be fixed. I really don’t think there is anybody, who really wants the show to fail. I, for one, like any show that protrays cryptozoology in the positive light, which your show does.
Are there people out there who are a little jealous of your show. Heck, yes, I’m one of them, I also jealous of Josh Gates, but it doesn’t mean I’m not going to watch the shows. There isn’t a Bigfoot hunter out there, who wouldn’t want to travel the country, looking for Bigfoot, and have all the expenses paid. I can only hope to someday win the lottery and do just that.
I do wish you luck on the show.
The problems that Matt has with Finding Bigfoot, are similar to the problems TAPS had with Ghost Hunters when it first started. The real issue is that the producers do not have enough confidence in the show on its own that they feel they need to embellish the show. It took TAPS time to get this squared away and if AP picks up season two, then the BFRO will have some leverage.
Of course, the questions about faking on reality television, specifically with Ghost Hunters, continues even today. See here.
Kahil, c’mon, just stop already. It’s understandable that people, at least those here at Cryptomundo, are frustrated and angry about the whole show being bombarded with inserted sounds, false evidence, misleads and what not all for the sake of entertainment. It’s also understandable that you turn to Matt Moneymaker as leader of the team to take the blame. So it was in the beginning. Now that information has come forth from Moneymaker that the producers of the show are being ‘creative’ with their editing and are really the culprit behind the show’s lack of credibility and such that are angering the people of the site so, we should finally stop pointing fingers at Matt. Yes, he did insult some of the members here by name calling and expressed some inappropriate attitude. Although it’s still uncalled for, the reason for this is that he was just angry, people – you tell him he’s a joke, only in it for the money, responsible for the show’s diminishing credibility, you make comments on his appearance and more. Also before the show even aired many were whining about the fact that Moneymaker was leading the expedition. I mean, come on! You take his pride away as a bigfoot researcher. I guess what I mean to say here is that it’s not totally inconceivable as to why he’s been acting the way he has considering what he’s been through.
Kahil, thank you for bringing this discussion back up. You just couldn’t leave it alone, could you? Great. Talk about someone who needs to get a thicker skin…
And you’re not the only one.
All I have to say is that when put in the eye of the public you need to expect some ridicule. When you actually read Kahil’s comment he’s just stating his opinion, which is allowed. When you’re on television not everyone out there is going to like you and immaturely attacking others doesn’t help. It’d be nice to read some adult conversations.
Lol… Wow Matt…what an ego… You did not state from the beginning that there were “edits”. You claimed it was all real, you defended Animal Planet, and then you screamed from the mountain top that I and everyone else will listen to you and follow the gospel of Moneymaker. Then you release a statement that is a complete 180 from before…which was obviously something written for you by a PR person. Then you come back here to bash users, namely me, again.
Can’t take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. You really need to get a thicker skin. You are a self proclaimed “expert” in a field of study that is held in high contention! You should be more than used to people not believing you. Instead, your first reaction is to call names and bash? Grade schoolers do that on the playground. Time to grow up and get some thicker skin.
Instead of going off the deep end and attacking me and others here, here’s what you should have done…
You should have said:
“On behalf of the BFRO team and myself, I apologize that what was seen on the show was not the entire truth. We were not involved in these changes and edits, nor did we approve of them. These actions by the production company are not up to the high standards and integrity that we hold ourselves to. I will investigate this further and do what I can resolve this. Thank you for your continued support.
Love,
Matt “The Squatcher” Moneymaker”
Had you said or done anything remotely like that, you could have avoided a lot of the fallout and could have saved your reputation as a bigfoot researcher.
So yeah… NO SOUP FOR YOU!! NEXT!!
Kahil is an example of the type of people who get banned from big organizations like ours. As people here are starting to see, he will relentlessly distort the facts, hoping that very few of you were paying attention enough to see what really happened, and what I actually said and did not say. I think the moderators of this site can probably see the same overt pattern with Kahil, and I respectfully request that they ban him and note his IP address.
It’s hard to tell if he actually believes the lies he is spouting, but he clearly isn’t going to stop, and I’m not going to repeatedly correct every individual bit of misinformation that he keeps repeating. He’s not worth my time. There’s some intelligent people on this site who don’t want to be misinformed by people like him.
Please ban him today. You won’t be losing any good content.
MM
(edited to conform to Cryptomundo’s terms of use)
Matt Matt Matt…
You should be a politician…lol… More people are of the same mind as I am when it comes to the subject of you and the show. You can’t backtrack on what we all know to be facts, on what we all know you clearly stated here in your own words.
Some people just can’t take valid and reasonable criticism for their own acts.
Matt, you are violating the first rule of a debate. You attack the acts of person, you attack what they say….you never attack the person.
Here’s the facts… It came out that what was seen on the show was faked. Viewers like me and others who were excited for the show lashed out in frustration. You came here and attacked us personally. You came here and defended what was seen and claimed it to be truths. You defended the production company and Animal Planet. You then backtrack. We viewers then find it difficult to take what you said, which was in complete contradiction to what you said previously, seriously and sincerely. Then you again come back here to personally attack.
I have done nothing to violate the rules that Craig and Loren have laid forth. You on the other hand have.
You are the weakest link…GOODBYE! ;P
Matt, why are you so angry? Swearing and name calling are not traits of an intelligent man. Kahil stated his opinion in a reasoned, respectful manner. Here was your chance to engage a “critic” in an intellectual way and instead you chose to hurl playground insults. You are coming off as oafish and petty. What an unfortunate way of representing your brand.
I’m a bit confused here, first matt says the show is legit & then now says it was re-edited fleshed out to make it seem real and yet he still trashes people for saying its fake when he himself openly admits hands down it’s fake on his own forum! Paradox…or bipolar disorder, you be the judge!
Gosh, here we go again. Its getting hot and heavy. Well, I must admit I’m getting a kick out of all the drama. One thing about Moneymaker, you can’t say he is boring.
I have been thinking about this, and imagine if you are as public as he is about being a Bigfoot enthusiast in America. You are on national tv and there is nowhere to hide. Most of us I imagine keep our Bigfoot enthusiasm to ourselves, or at least, don’t bring it up as a first line topic when meeting new people. Lets face it, you are going to be labeled a kook and a crazy person by most of society. In fact, you might even feel a bit persecuted. So I think I can understand why Moneymaker comes on so strong. With that in mind, I wish his show success and maybe it will be improved in its methods in the future.
How is Kahil distorting facts? Is he a producer on the show we don’t know about? Kahil is not a toad, to the best of my knowledge (which is quite vast I might add) he is a bonafide homosapian. He much like myself he has the guts and integrity to question some very questionable things,facts and people.
So what exactly is the point of your show Matt? Seems it’s gotten away from you bigtime.
Mr. Moneymaker,
You seem to be missing the mark on why people are becoming upset with you. Yes, we do realize that Ping Pong Production has ‘creatively’ edited the footage to make things appear the way ‘they’ want them to appear; regardless of what actually happened, regardless of the truth.
We understand that you are in a bad situation as all the footage has been shot and you haven’t been allowed to view the finished product prior to airing. Most of us also understand that you are under a great deal of pressure from the fall out you are receiving from the creative editing, and I imagine some pressure from the production company, the network and of course, family responsibilities as well.
All of this is understandable and not the real issue. The problem most of the commentors are having with you is the way you address the people who question you. That whole, “you will submit to me, you will kneel before me” comment and the attitude that you bring along with it is what is going to hang you. Yes you are upset and angry that things are not turning out as you imagined/were promised, anyone of us here can and will understand this. You acting like a rabid animal is not so forgivable.
Please, take this bit of advise under consideration. Whomever wrote the ‘press release’ that was given to Mr. Woolheater; let him use your sign on and comment on your behalf. If it was another person let them deal with the stress of PR while you concentrate on other matters. If it was you, please get to that calm place inside of yourself and speak from there when replying to comments. The anger and bile do no one any good, least of all your and your organization.
I spelled out what were simulations and what were creative edits, and which things were legit and authentic. Are so many of you so thick headed that you only understand a show as being fake or legit, or defensible or indefensible … as opposed to mix of things that can be individually scored? What we, the cast, did was legitimate and authentic, though heavily limited from what we normally do in the field.
The dashcam footage was legitimate. It was not a hoax.
What the producers edited about showed later about what happened during the night scenes … was highly edited.
How is it that you cannot understand how all those things can occur in the same production?? Yes, some of it was very, very legit. And yes, some of it was altered to optimize the storytelling.
That concept is apparently waaay waaay over the heads of some of you.
(edited to conform to Cryptomundo’s terms of use)
Excuse while I slice and BBQ Kahil here:
Kahil writes:
“Here’s the facts… It came out that what was seen on the show was faked. Viewers like me and others who were excited for the show lashed out in frustration. You came here and attacked us personally.”
Let’s see here … It was none other than me who was the one who started releasing info about which things in the show were simulations, and defending which things in the show were legit. I defended my own statements on the show too. And then Kahil attacked ME, personally. Remember that, Kahil? “First rule of debate” was violated in your very first sentence for your very first message on this forum.
Everything I have said so far has been correct and accurate.
but Kahil says:
“You came here and defended what was seen and claimed it to be truths.”
MM: Which things exactly are you referring to? Spell them out. List them. Quote me. You don’t know what you’re talking about and/or you’re spouting lies. Quote me.
Kahil: “You defended the production company and Animal Planet.”
MM: I defended Animal Planet and the production company on something that you and CDC falsely accused them of faking, like the tracks. The tracks were not fake. Yeah, I’ll defend them on that. Do you understand how that could be possible, even if the producers inserted simulated sounds at some points of the episode?
Kahil: “You then backtrack.”
MM: Exactly where did I back track about the production company? Spell it out. Quote me.
Kahil: “We viewers then find it difficult to take what you said, which was in complete contradiction to what you said previously, seriously and sincerely. Then you again come back here to personally attack.”
MM: You do no represent anyone. and and I don’t bother setting straight.
Craig, Loren: Boot Kahil.
(edited to conform to Cryptomundo’s terms of use)
What happened to enforcing the TOS?
Or does Moneymaker get a free pass on calling people names (again)?
Thank you guys!
I am and have only been engaging in the debate. I, like many others, saw the promos for the show and were honestly excited to finally see a show about it, not just a one off documentary or featurette. Honestly, had Matt simply been more mature in his responses and was up front about everything that is happening, then I and others most likely wouldn’t have said much about it….at least not to the extent we have.
His long time study in the field, contributions to the field and such may be genuine and legit and sincere for the finding of bigfoot. But as any politician will tell you, all it takes is one mistake, one negative outburst or the like to completely ruin a career or in the very least, call into question their entire career.
Moneymaker still has a chance to save face. Based on his reactions as of late, it will be difficult for him to do so….it also could have all been avoided. What can he do to help some? He can do what other members of BFRO are doing. They aren’t running here to make personal attacks against the readers. They are using their own blogs/sites to give a “behind the scenes” view of what was shown on the episodes. Let us know what was real, what was faked and why certain things were or weren’t done. Its really just that simple.
Now, I’m not a self proclaimed crypto expert. I don’t have a lot of money to buy and use expensive, high tech equipment. I don’t have the time to take away from my fiance who is fighting cancer. So in response to an email sent to me, what have I done to help the field of cryptozoology? Well…nothing first hand. I would love to if given the chance. But I have offered my skills to help with the design and updating of this site. I have also designed a cryptozoology mobile app. I have offered the design to Craig and Loren, at no charge. You can see it here if you’d like.
So all in all, I wish Matt Moneymaker the best of luck in repairing his reputation…he’s gonna need it. If he does, then great. I sincerely hope he does find something that either proves or helps to prove the existence of bigfoot. Hopefully he does so with a lot less ego and a lot more humility.
must ask this question to the mods of this site and Craig in general. We had the post about TERMS OF — USE. several of our loyal members here had replies edited to meet those TERMS. We were told the NAME calling would not be accepted. Yet Mr. Moneymaker is allowed to continually usenames and foul language in general and do the very things we were warned against….Shame on the mods and the admins for setting such a double standard……
Loren, Craig,
Feel free to edit my posts to make them satisfactory under your moderation policies. I won’t mind that. My points will still come through. That’s all I care about.
“matt_moneymaker responds:
Are so many of you so thick headed that you only understand a show as being fake or legit, or defensible or indefensible … as opposed to mix of things that can be individually scored?”
I will make sure to bring my scorepad whenever I get a chance to watch the show. 😛
Column A: Actually happened
Column B: Edited for effect
This is all getting pretty crazy.
Please explain what was meant about accepting so called real stuff liberally mixed with exposed fakery being pushed as definitive evidence and actual events as having any merit. The dashcam footage clearly doesn’t show a bigfoot, so that defense of it being real went out the window in a heart beat and it giving your show (and by extension you Matt along with the BFRO) credit just doesn’t hold up. Give me a body on a slab and I’ll pay for the bronze statue of you out of my own pocket, until then don’t pling me or any of us with phoney crap being touted as real evidence and lay off the temper tantrums: very unbecoming.
Matt, you need to seriously think about how you are representing yourself and the field of study that you so dearly love. You are coming across as angry, defensive, and jaded. It doesn’t seem to me that Kahil intended to stoke controversy. He was just stating his opinion. He never crossed the line of turning his view into a personal attack on you. That was your chance to engage him in an intelligent, reasoned, controlled debate to explain your views. When you levee personal attacks as you so quickly did, you immediately lose ground as a credible authority. You are a professional, it would benefit you to act as such.
I gotcha Matt.
I think everyone needs to chill a bit. Animal Planet is in the ENTERTAINMENT industry. It’s the editors job to put together an entertaining show for the general public that the producers approve of. It’s not a documentary or a documentary channel.
I do believe that they are in the wrong for not stating that at the very beginning of each episode or stating that “certain situations have been enhanced for entertainment purposes”.
Do I think this undermines Matt, his team and the true reasearch they do? Yes.
Do I think it also brings the interest and search for the North American Ape to the general populace in a form they will enjoy? Yes
So it’s a bit of a double edged sword. I will keep watching the show, however cum grano salis.
I think Matt has made his point very clear on how the show is “run”.
I think that a lot of this comes with the territory when you use a big production company and you have a show on a major cable network. No matter what the channel, they will always put ratings ahead of truths. Some may outright lie. Some may make really good efforts to bend the truths. Its the ratings that puts money in their pockets, not the truth.
As for the things that Moneymaker has said to me, and others….I personally could care less. It’s just words on the internet. There’s nothing he can say or do that can affect me. So I’m not worried in the slightest.
I would like to see a statement from the production company and Animal Planet on the matter. They really should explain their role in the whole fiasco. Hopefully they will see and hear the frustration of the viewers and of those in the crypto field. It’s events such as these, it not only harms the reputation of those involved, but of all in the field. It makes it that much more difficult for them to be taken seriously on the subject.
Hopefully the production company and Animal Planet will see the errors of their ways and maybe they will fix what they have broken in future episodes.
Kahil has hit the nail on the head, and the nail is crying……
Matt,
I am a person who has been on the fence about Bigfoots. Your show made me firmly believe that they existed and thrived. However, I must say Animal Planet has done NOTHING but hurt your organization and I do feel for you. To find out the howls and the knocks were edited in or “souped up” is very disturbing for the BFRO. What I mean is that you went from credible to another loon looking for Bigfoot and its not even your fault.
Enough about that, I have a question, if you see this PLEASE answer, it’s been bugging me.
Bear, deer, racoons, Elk, ETC, they all live in the same rural areas as Bigfoots. How come if there are sightings reported back well over 100 years have we not found a carcass? A Sasquatch that got injured and died or died of natural causes as animals/mammals do.
Again, I want to believe they are there, but this is the one question I cannot comprehend. I mean, If there is a population of 2-5,000 in the USA alone there has got to be a dead squatch laying around somewhere out there.
Your thoughts?
And keep going Moneymaker, I love that you are firm in what you believe in. I can see your dedication and resolve on the show and it’s an inspiration to me. What I mean is that you defy the critics and never give up, I admire that.
@jvanley
You rarely find carcasses of ANY animals in the forest. In these kind of forested areas the decomposition processes are considerably faster than you’d find elsewhere. You’d be amazed exactly how fast a dead animal can completely vanish, leaving nothing behind to prove of its existence.
Kahil,
If you could pay attention, Matt has made it abundantly clear that the production company has ten times more creative control than the researchers. I suggest the wisest thing to do is accept for the time being, that “Finding Bigfoot” is meant to appeal to a wider audience, the producers lack confidence in its original state, and that with patience the program itself might improve.
But please, stop attacking Matt. He is one OUR side. Are you really going to continue to berate him with criticism when he is at the mercy of his producers? Please, direct your frustrations at Ping Pong productions or whomever, but don’t shoot Matt, who is simply a victim of being relentlessly taken out of context.
And seriously, I have followed these threads here via BFForums for the entire time. I KNOW that you are wrong.
PS: Kahil, I am not attacking you, just correcting you. I advise you re-read the past few threads.
Oh, and to be clear : This is Animal Planets (for simplicities sake) take on the Bigfoot Phenomenon. It is not an accurate portrayal of Matt Moneymaker, or Bigfoot research (edited sounds). If Matt Moneymaker and his crew had full control, we’d have a much different show, packed with interesting observations, and truthful representation of data.
Matt, respect to you brother.
I challenged Kahil to actually prove what he says that I did on this forum (see my message above) …. and you’ll notice that he dodged my challenge completely. He couldn’t support what he was saying with direct quotes.
I never did a 180 as he says. I never back tracked. If I insulted him, then he deserves it. I could easily smack down anyone else here who chooses to lie about my group’s accomplishment and distort the facts. But, alas, there is not enough time, and there’s plenty of unaccomplished people out there who will burn with jealousy of others’ success and will attempt to undermine it with misinformation and rumor. When those people are challenged to support their bogus claims … and they back away from that challenge … then we should ignore whatever they say after that. It’s just misinformation by a jealous nobody.
MM
Ah, and again (feel free to merge this post with the one above it), Matt only responded in a “vulgar” manner because you guys were ripping him apart. It was not because he is Matt Moneymaker, Giant-Evil-Bigfoot-Business-Man – it was because he is human!
Even CEO’s lose their cool, because CEO’s are human too. I’d be frustrated, if not anxiously so, to respond to people throwing my name around, while I’m sitting at home, misunderstood, and unable to communicate face-to-face, wouldn’t you guys?
He did have questionable claims in regards to wood-knocking and vocalizing, but again, it was taken out of context by “Animal Planet”, and turned into a spectacle. In reality Matt explained, his statement was merely a brief quote. If he truly felt compelled to share this statement, he would have earlier – on the BFRO, or in interviews, or written books. In other words, he didn’t get in our faces about it before the show aired, so why be so malicious?
@ ijustmadethisscreenname
If you would be kind enough to re-read all the threads involve, I believe you will see that most of us do understand that MM is caught between a rock and a hard place, we don’t fault him for that.
What we fault him for is his behavior towards commentors on this site. There is a world of difference between holding someone accountable for what was done to them and holding them accountable for actions that they, themselves have chosen to make.
It is the latter that have most of us bristled.
@ flame821
I understand that the personal comments made, which are directly traceable to Matt have bristled some people, and understandably so. That, is completely within reason.
However, I am not addressing those people. I am addressing those who have continued to Berate Moneymaker by holding him in direct responsibility for “Animal Planet’s” viewer manipulations – despite the distinction Moneymaker himself, and Cliff Barackman have repeatedly made (with 100% clarity).
Despite this clarification, Kahil, among others continue to accuse him of deeds he is not responsible for. It has in fact become a mindless routine that is convoluting the basic argument.
Matt…..wow…. There was no need to answer your lil challenge because like I said, everyone can read what you were saying then and what you are saying now and see that it isn’t consistent…at all.
Trust me, no one is jealous of you. No one is afraid of you. No one is going to be on their knees listening to you speak and praising you.
Success? If you are referring to any success in bigfoot research, then you must be using a very very liberal definition of the word…just like with the word “expert”. In cryptozoology, the only success that comes from it is proof…and as we all know by now, proof isn’t exactly your strong point as of late. Success in cryptozoology usually only comes in the form of the proving or disproving of a cryptid…..aaaaaand….you haven’t done that.
@ ijustmadethisscreename – I have never attacked Matt. I have attacked his actions, his words and his ego…but never have I made personal attacks. If you will re-read these posts, you will see that it is Moneymaker who has been making some very offensive personal attacks against me and others here. He simply chooses to play by school yard rules rather than having a mature, adult debate. Hell, he claims that I and others will be on our knees praising him. So yeah…don’t go claiming that the bully is the victim. Face it, the actions that have transpired on the show has drastically diminished the reputation of the show, Moneymaker and so on.
Matt, here’s a challenge for you. Let go of the ego and gather proof…verifiable proof. Not just things you assume to be proof. If you hear a knock in the woods, don’t automatically assume its a bigfoot. If you hear a noise in the woods, don’t automatically assume its a bigfoot. Less assuming and more proving. When in doubt, throw it out. Your little claim to fame about the wood knockings is just a claim, nothing more. It can only be taken seriously once it is proven…as in when someone observes a sasquatch doing the wood knocking. Do you accept?
Kahil said “I am and have only been engaging in the debate.”
I wonder if you were able to type that with a straight face?
Seriously dude, there’s enough blame to go around and plenty to be angry about, but you’ve said nothing constructive (at least recently). Mudslinging=/= debate, which is what you’ve primarily done here. Matt may have said some things that are out of line, but to demonize him and the entire BFRO without a fair trial (which is what you’ve done pretty much from the beginning), is beyond the pale. Take a chill pill.
@Tarzanboyy – That is the whole purpose of a debate. You attack what someone says or does, but never make personal attacks. I have followed those rules. I’ve debated what Matt has said and done…plain and simple. I don’t think any of us here have too much to say about the rest of the BFRO team. Right after it came out that a lot of what was seen was “edited”, they spoke out on their sites or here and gave a behind the scenes account of things. Matt on the other hand chose to defend what was shown on TV and he chose to make harsh, personal attacks. Things he said previously and things he is saying now are less than consistent as you or anyone else can clearly read. He has a huge ego, which isn’t helping his cause at all either. If he can’t let go of his ego and learn to take any criticism lightly, then he has no business being a cryptozoologist. A cryptozoologist can’t be taken seriously if they have an “I’m right and you’re wrong” mentality.
If Matt wants to have a mature, adult debate on the subject, then by all means
dont sweat it Kahil. Every dog has fleas..anyone who is not hypnotized can go back and read all the posts by everyone and see what has been said and by whom. Quit getting sucked into the trap. Just remember Lawyers are Trained to twist evidence and the truth to meet a certain end they may not outright lie but they enter that grey area and thrive there.. “if the glove dont fit”…lol leave Matt alone he has dug his hole let him lay in it and maybe just maybe he will suprise us all……hey it could happen…The more you pick at a sore the worse it gets so just leave it alone and it will go away….
@ Kahil
1) “He acts as though, and probably thinks that, he is the Jane Fossey of Bigfoot”
2) “Their “science” isn’t science. Its made up junk”
3) “wow… a bear f*rts in the woods and Moneymaker believes a Skunk Ape is there…lol…”
4) “After all, its just another reality tv show. Especially since they fake evidence and Moneymaker thinks everything he sees or hears has something to do with Bigfoot. He is an “expert” after all right? **rolls eyes**”
5) “Time to grow up and get some thicker skin”
You cannot deny these as personal attacks, nor can you claim to have been altruistically debating, or to have been the innocent victim of Moneymaker’s verbal abuse. Quite honestly, you asked for it. You didn’t merely issue criticisms in a polite manner, you instigated what became a larger fight via misdirected critiques infused with brute condescension.
I cannot defend Moneymaker’s negative words, but I can see that you are the pot calling the kettle black.
You should just truce, and resign to the notion of agreeing to disagree.
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@ ijustmadethisscreename – Those aren’t personal attacks. I’m not calling him names or attacking him as a person. I have been picking at the things he says and does…plain and simple.
Does he think and claim to know facts about bigfoot? Yes, as though he has lived with them and studied them with close, personal interactions. He nor anyone else has done so.
The facts and science that is being claimed on the show have in fact been proven to have been faked…so yes, it is made up junk.
Watching the two episodes so far, every time there was a noise in the woods he automatically jumped to attributing to there being “a squatch in these woods”.
Cryptozoology is a field of study based on discovering the unknown. No one can be an expert on the unknown. Bigfoot is an unknown. No one has studied one. No one has captured one. Therefore no one can be an expert on them. You can claim to be a learned professional in the field, but no on in the field garnishing an ounce of respect will dare claim to be an expert in the field. I have never heard or seen professionals like Loren and Craig make such a bold proclamation as to call themselves experts.
And to your final point… Yes, Matt should grow some thicker skin…especially after all the time he’s spent in the field. Anyone getting into this field should know from the get go that most people aren’t going to believe them and will criticize them. It comes with the territory. When engaging them in discussion, your first reaction cannot be to lash out in anger.
ijustmadethisscreename and those of similar persuasion.
I find it very interesting that this thread has strayed so far from the relatedness of the topic and its implications regarding what we should all view as tantamount to our real driving interest, namely the classification of and recognition of sasquatch as a new species. I have no interest in engaging in personal attacks upon anyone. Those though that egotistically and unreasonably make themselves “experts” bug the crap out of me and I’m sure all that see through their smokescreen. Any honest mistakes in methodology etc. made by well intentioned persons are certainly forgivable if for no other reason than the nebulous nature of the subject in general.
Pursuit to the real research goal, now almost hidden by all this; we need to be aware, mindful and considerate of the sources of information being presented as proof. In view of this I think it crucially important that any such de-facto evidence be carefully scrutinized. In order to do this we need to be as objective as humanly possible—not always easy. What is easy is to become rightfully indignant to the repeated presentation of ambiguous information and by extension those that lie or falsify evidence.
Purely intellectually; I fail to understand how anyone can come to MM’s defense; his behavior is inexcusable.
Unscrupulous publicity seeking exaggerators destroy credibility for all those honest seekers of the truth. Moneymaker’s vindictive attacks against those who disagree with him are indicative of his character which I need not expound upon.
What further aggravates the issue is the misrepresentation of ones true credentials and past experience, as we have observed reputedly here with the recent BFRO escapades. Suck folks should expect outrage from any thinking audience. Anyone that holds oneself out as “the expert authority” to the general public at large and more specifically to the quasi-scientific community such as here at Cryptomundo should expect to be challenged at every turn. When the quasi-scientific community is then treated like a bunch of idiots, offense and umbrage result. No scientific venue has place for emotions. Emotions cloud the facts and scientific issues without exception. Moneymaker’s shenanigans are reprehensible because they cast a poor light on cryptozoology and they distort the facts. His antics do much to impede real research and are also symptoms of his over identification with the subject, i.e. “he is the authority” on “His” subject…it belongs to him and he decides who and how others can be involved.
There are real, bona fide scientific experts out there, but we don’t see much of them on Animal Planet. I can’t fail to contrast and compare guys and gals such as Dr. Jeff Meldrum and others, (on both sides of the fence) If MM would learn from example from people such as the aforementioned he would be doing himself and all of us a terrific favor. I “feel” (LOL) quite sure, though I have no examples; MM considers himself a pier or worse: a superior.
Unscrupulous publicity seeking exaggerators destroy credibility for all those honest seekers of the truth. Moneymaker’s vindictive attacks against those who disagree with him are of character traits which I need not expound upon.
Kahil; Your indignation is understandable. Bet you don’t care much for Tom Biscardi either! Some people have difficulty separating the facts from their emotional attachments to particular personalities. While it is obvious there is no love lost in your assessment of MM, I fail to see anything in your posts that attack MM as a human being, but rather you are miffed as hell at this guys unwarranted, unmitigated effrontery; as we all should be.
I for one will endeavor in the future to restrain myself from commenting on the MM issue, hopefully it will fade away. I sincerely look forward to seeing much more evidence of the Sasquatche’s existence and the discussion of thereof.
I love finding bigfoot and i love them all including Matt moneymaker. But what i dont like is when Matt says things that are just plain dumb and makes a mockery of the whole team and makes u all look like crazies. One episode he goes into a cabin with the girl and they find a mattress old and stinky and Matt says that this is excactly what a Bigfoot would sleep in. ReallY? Another one is when he finds what looks like a small pile of sticks in the yeti episode and says this looks like a place where a bigfoot would sleep. Really? to me it says A sherpa who made a fire. I have since a kid studied bigfoot and i remember growing up with Legend of boggy creek. I also saw a bigfoot when hunting in Northern Ontario. I know they exist but when u have people saying things that are crazyin the hunt for it that is sad cause Matt you make a mockery of BFRO and what u founded. Dont jump to crazy conclusions and say things that are just plain stupid. Make yourself look more professional please. And Have a happy 2014 and hope for more Finding bigfoot. Lets just hope Matt doesnt say things that make them look like nuts and BFRO a farce.