Could Ketchum’s Sample Be A Set-Up?

Posted by: Loren Coleman on July 15th, 2011

Why are rumors circulating discussing stories of two recently killed or, at least, dead Sasquatch? Why is leaked info denoting that DNA findings have been found telling that one dead Bigfoot body has human DNA and the other has non-human DNA? Why are considerations being given to these samples being an indication of an unknown primate instead of one of the researcher’s skin cells having fallen on the sample? What are the counter-rumors that human corpse samples from stolen sources have been given to the lab for testing? Could some of the players in this not even understand what’s really at stake here?

We have all heard a lot about Melba Ketchum, who was for years closely associated with the Horse Genome Project. She is a former professional horse trainer and practicing veterinarian, who now practices in the field of genetics.

Does vet Melba Ketchum have samples of Bigfoot/Sasquatch tissue?

What’s going on here?

You cannot believe what some people are saying about this business.

Some of the strangest emails cross my desk. How about elements from the following about this Ketchum set up?

I did hear from one of my retired federal investigator sources who still works for them as a consulting evidence expert. He told me essentially they know what is going on and are watching the situation. They have all the forum reports, know where the supposed samples came from, who and who is not involved and what roles they’re playing.

I get the feeling from him that national security is somehow involved. I don’t know how except perhaps it might have something to do with release or misuse of technology that’s considered vital (educated guess). This is a new area in advanced research and puts a real dent in the how much anyone working on new technology can say or release in any form.

Beyond this he can tell me nothing in specific except that when and if they decide laws have been broken they will act. I know he holds a Top Secret clearance with compartmentalizations. He has multiple degrees in scientific fields and consults for several agencies on evidentiary issues. My work for him was routine but he’s really an interesting person.

He made no reference to any hoax other than to say they know what’s going on and who’s responsible. They will act if and when they decide the situation warrants it. It isn’t quite as bad as portrayed in the Indiana Jones movies but almost so.

And this, also:

I suspect there’s more beyond this supposed hoax than we’ll ever know. This business with the so called Dr. Ketchum smells like another stinking hoax and you’ve done a good job of reporting like you did in 2008. However, this time I’m not buying into it. I don’t know what’s up but when one of the people I’ve done work for in my past government careers tells me for my own good to stay out of a mess I should take his advice. It’s an interesting twist with the feds watching the whole deal and I wonder what’s up and why but like I said when a friend says stay out I stay out. I suspect that we’ll never know the whole story. So much information is hidden in the name of national security that it’s ridiculous.

Is there a dark side of this whole business that is going to take us down some avenues none of us can imagine right now?

Loren Coleman About Loren Coleman
Loren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading living cryptozoologist. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct). Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013. He returned as an infrequent contributor beginning Halloween week of 2015. Coleman is the founder in 2003, and current director of the International Cryptozoology Museum in Portland, Maine.

30 Responses to “Could Ketchum’s Sample Be A Set-Up?”

  1. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Sounds like Shadow Government “Men In Black” style disinfo & intimidation & bogus charges. Invent something.

    Of course with currently more advanced surveillance well beyond old Project Echelon, ALL e-mail, snail mail & telephone is totally monitored.

    I always said, when dealing with Politically Incorrect data of an archeological, biological, whatever nature make sure you diversify the recipients of the data as widely as possible, & internationally as possible, with as much undeclared brown envelope personal hand to hand transportation as possible, cash & carry & older vehicles free of GPS tracking and no credit card/cell/email usage in the course of the transaction. Then the data samples are passed to the next individual, to the next breaking the trail.

    Never give samples to any one affiliated with any institution of enormous financial connection – governmental, funded institions, multi-nationals.

    Use many multiple labs internationally for tiny sealed samples, every media outlet under the sun in one fell swoop from Fortean, Paranormal, Creationist, New Age, Cryptozoological, Conspiracy Investigators, Countries with no connection or in scientific competition to your native country. Don’t give all the information up front, and often don’t even tell them what they are really testing. Sure some are on the pay or will contact connections & be a stool pigeon.

    Document, Document and multiple data packs sent to various individuals all over the World for safe keeping.

    My past acquaintance were mostly Military, Political, CIA/Contractors & LEO…

  2. j stewart responds:

    My concern is that we are not given the name of the person making the statements. Without being able to verify the credibility and honesty and potential motives of the e mail sender it seems odd that we would see yet another post casting a dark cloud over Dr Ketchum with no actual proof to back up any claims not even a name. It seems that there are a lot of people coming out of the woodwork who thrive on drama and would love nothing more than to see Melba fail…if there is proof of wrong doing let’s see it.

  3. Nny responds:

    Thanks for sharing Loren.

    The whole ordeal is very interest and disheartening. I said somewhere else on here that after all the drama I’m not expecting to hear anything groundbreaking for the rest of the year(at least, and pessimistic I know).

    But the talk about how the government is watching, possibly involved, brings lots more questions than answers.

    This really does sound like the dark side of the business.

    And thanks again for sharing Loren.

  4. Demian66 responds:

    I value this forum very (extremely) high. But I feel this “Melba Bashing” now gets close to the ridiculous. Why do not wait a little bit more and then we can still see if this becomes a “second Georgia”. If her study is crap it will never be published by a high-profile (or even low-profile) journal. If it is not it will be published one day, but still will not persuade the hardest sceptics – but nothing will until they get eaten by a bigfoot. First and foremost it will then bring the debate about bigfoot from the edge into the mainstream of science. And from this point it is just a matter of time when this species gets fully acknowledged.
    And finally: Melba Ketchum (if she is not lying) revealed on the internet in early February that her paper has already been accepted for peer-review – just a little bit more than one month after she has submitted it to the journal (she could of course not tell what journal) in early December 2010! This means it fulfills the required scientific standards, even if the reviewers will perhaps have some critical remarks in the course of the peer-review process, so that in the end the paper will have some minor or major revisions.

  5. Redrose999 responds:

    Ahhh the birth of a conspiracy theory! How lovely! I’m now putting money on the fact she just might say the DNA was taken by the men in black! People will be talking about this one for year, just like the Mount Saint Helen’s Bigfoot bodies. This fiasco couldn’t get trainwreckier!

    Well, at least the cynic in me is highly suspicious now. But, for the sake of those riding their hopes on this, I do hope my inner cynic is completely wrong.

  6. RWRidley responds:

    Oy, this is bordering on the insane. Secret government conspiracies, top secret security clearances, national security, blah, blah, blah! Sorry, but some people shouldn’t be allowed to send emails.

    I’ve heard of government conspiracies because of a fear of resources lock down, but this the first time I’ve been exposed to a Bigfoot government conspiracy due to national security. It’s tough to swallow… because I can’t stop chuckling.

  7. Fred123 responds:

    It sounds to me like somebody is already working on a story to explain why this “proof” is never going to show up. I wonder if Naval Intelligence is going to be confiscating those Caddy videos anytime soon.

  8. Kopite responds:

    That’s Melba Ketchum? Well I haven’t got much to say on this subject except for “I’ll wait and see” but boy Melba is way cuter than I expected her to be. Wow.

  9. norman-uk responds:

    I think that Dr Melba is not the cause of this imbroglio about DNA results but as in the eye of the growing storm, hopefully maintaining objectivity and calm at the centre. It seems to me there are no grounds to worry about plots and conspiracies at this point because there are likely to be delays, differences of opinion and quite nasty disputes for quite a while after DNA results are revealed. Homo Floriensis was discovered in 2004 and still the matter is not entirely settled.

    We shouldnt be painting a black picture here but appreciate that imformation about bigfoot DNA etc is being unravelled and there is every reason to be optimistic. In addition in Denmark , Mande Burung samples are being tested and in Australia the Indonesian hobbit, though a hugh challenge.

    Something that might be relevent to DNA research once we have bigfoot DNA is smelly hair found in some humans and in bigfoot. It doesnt seem to be enviromental. There is an intriguing similarity of symptoms!

    Clearly as bigfoot DNA results emerge, as I am sure they will, bigfoot research will take on a new perspective and at some point will tend to be hi-jacked by the technical experts and backroom boys. They will need to be kept in check by the experts in the field whether they have letters after their name or not.

  10. whiteriverfisherman responds:

    As I have said before, a DNA sample proves nothing! If there is no known BF DNA to compare sample against at most it will be labeled “unknown”. My BS meter has been going off the scale since I first read about this story. Nothing adds up and stories keep changing. This is just a story and nothing more. It’s not even a good story.

  11. ParticleNoun responds:

    I understand that the crypto community has been burned many times, so skepicism and even hostility are a natural response to stories like the one we are following here.

    However, those emails smack of paranoia and mental illness, not genuine information or concern. Just my 2 cents on that.

    I am concerned with how Dr. Ketchum is being treated here. As far as I can tell, she’s been pretty straightforward about most of this, and it actually is in all of our interests, if there is merit in this story, that she keep largely quiet until results are released.

    If the admins of this site won’t admit to a *little* bias against here, I’d posit the following evidence: The url of this address is /blah blah/cryptozoo-news/ketchup. Amusing, but a bit derisive.

    In any event, @whiteriverfisherman, I have to disagree, and pretty strongly. I would agree that a single sample which comes back unknown (not inconclusive, but unknown) is only partly useful. However, this is not that kind of case, from what we are told.

    Keeping aside the potential ridiculousness and possible disinformation about the dead bigfoots, before any of that happened, there were scores of samples in this study. If they are able to show commonality between scores of samples, each of which has a forensic trail matching up with witness accounts of a bigfoot creature, I think you have a great deal there. I don’t think you’ve actually been following this story if you are under the impression there is a single sample, or if this is limited to this strange ‘hunter kills bigfoot’ stuff. The scope of this is far greater, and it would seem to me that the rest of the study, outside of those samples, seems to be being conducted in a highly rigorous method. Time will tell, of course.

    But it does seem like there is an impulse to pull out anything we can to discredit Dr. Ketchum without any real cause to do so.

  12. ETxArtist responds:

    Didn’t you know? Everyone out here in East Texas is part of a huge government conspiracy. In fact, I’m getting a little worried because I haven’t received any top secret samples lately- I usually get two or three a week.

  13. Nominay responds:

    Suddenly we have crickets from many who pooh poohed the idea at of government secrecy and research on Bigfoot. Show of hands people who want to go on record now calling longtime friends of Loren’s liars?

  14. hudgeliberal responds:

    I had hopes for this DNA news when it first started to make rounds but as time passed I have become more and more skeptical. I sure hope this will not be another hoax like 08. I dont think we could withstand another like that. This thing is starting to build unbelievable momentum through the community and it is starting to get real scary. Man,I just hope and pray that this doesnt make us all look like idiots…again!!

  15. ithilien responds:

    i’m not holding out much hope for this one. first there seems to be a plethora of bigfoot remains, after decades of “never finding a body,” then there is a hokey story making the rounds that has all the marks of an urban myth in the making, from the mystery shooter to high placed government involvement, and then the worst and last…the Better Business Bureau”s report on Ketchum’s lab. I wouldn’t need to see anything else to know this project is doomed. The BBB report is damning to say the least…
    frequent turnover and utter incompetence both in business and science. Is it a set up?

  16. hossoso responds:

    Been following for years, just joined to call out the mania before the depression. This is absolutely ridiculous. From the shifting stories of Robert Lindsay (have you really looked at his website?! Articles other than Bigfoot, that is?) to the varying identities and “friends of” Bear Hunter on this site and Bigfoot Forums to the NDA’s that every one has signed (copies shouldn’t have any too revealing info printed directly on them right, they’re legal docs-they’ve been notarized, so a lawyer or say, Loren could see one?) to the BBB trail… This is just mania before the depression. Finally, as everyone else who isn’t buying this for a second has said, I hope I’m wrong. I really do.

  17. hossoso responds:

    If I am allowed, I know I am pushing it with my 2nd post, I would like to comment on how beautifully compartmentalized this story is in the way it was delivered. As soon as one compartment started to disintegrate, there was something else to distract you. If you are too analytical and focused on rationalizing one portion (story, discovery, research, funding, legality, who, what, where, why, how) you don’t pay attention to how flimsy the rest of the parts may be. You have to step back a bit to realize that the ship is sinking from dozens of compromises in the hull not just the one in front of you. Wish it added up to something that would float but I am glad that I am not sailing on it.

  18. flame821 responds:

    Unless I’m mistaken, most of this fallout hitting Dr. Ketchum started because of a post on another website. A post that most of us laughed at and stated there was no evidence to support it. And at the time I specifically pointed out that the reporter/interviewee seemed to have a bug up his shorts regarding Dr Ketchum. It sounded like a lot of bad grapes to me.

    Then the ‘bearhunter’ or ‘friend of the bearhunter’ changed the story slightly to cast the shooter in a more humane light. Then, in almost no time at all another ‘person in the know’ cast the shooter as a pompous, shoot-anything-I-want-whenever-I-want jackenapes.

    The original story has changed so many times I can’t give it much credence and it is THAT story that started the questioning of Dr Melba Ketchum.

    I sense more of a personal vendetta going on here than I do an actual story. I want to know who bearhunter is, I want to know who Friend of bearhunter is. Without anyone willing to stand up and be named, to give evidence that would stand up to at LEAST a police investigation this is but smoke and mirrors

  19. paulisthewalrus responds:

    I am with the previous post. If you listen to Lindsay’s two blog radio interviews, plus read his posts, there are differences in the story. I understand some, but not all. Additionally, if you look at some of the other material on his blog, it makes CNBC look like Fox News – very interesting.

    Never doubted the existence of the creatures. A close personal friend had an encounter while in their teens, and has never wavered with their story in 22 years.

    I hope that something does come of all of this, but after reading, listening, and doing my own research, I must say that I am not as excited as I was two weeks ago.

  20. Nominay responds:

    ‘Bear Hunter’ is Ken Walker, a taxidermist and outdoorsman of some prestige. This has been confirmed, and also corroborated by Derek Randles on …
    I haven’t had the time to track down the shooter. It’s proven a completely different ball of yarn to identify him. I intend on doing so when the time allots me. I want him outed.

  21. RWRidley responds:

    Derek Randles has posted what looks like a fairly reasonable accounting of the shooting. His account actually comes from the shooter himself. Lindsay’s account comes through a source that talked to the shooter, so I’d have to give the nod to Derek on the details of the story.

    Sierra Shooting

    The only thing that sounds out of place (and this isn’t Derek’s fault) is the claim that when they returned for the bodies they found “a piece of flesh, greasy fat and hair.” I would think that would be an extremely rare find given the number of scavengers in the wild. Even rarer than shooting a Sasquatch.

  22. trapper9990 responds:

    It always baffles me that with as many intelligent people as their are surfing these forums, why their could be so much confusion. I mean i read most everyones posts and with very few exceptions everyone on here are really intelligent people, but maybe just a little to pessimistic, but i can understand this with all the hoaxes in the past, all i can say is just think on things and i think you may see why things make sense with government involvement.

    Again, throughout history there have been numerous documented killings of bigfoot, and im sure scores more that never were reported. It has also been described on numerous occassions, how certain people have covered these up. I mean if we as supporters of things cryptid, including bigfoot, and we are confident that these things do exist, then the government most certainly does know they are here. Afterall if they had no clue, they would have obviously put together a specific governmental scientific study to study the phenomenon of bigfoot sightings and such. Because it would be of great interest to them if a new species was out their. Yet to our knowledge this has never been done, and for good reason, they already know, i mean even if im completely wrong in my assumptions. If the creature does exist, then it is a certainty that a body or body part has crossed the desk of officials involved with the government. It is a certainty.

    So alot of people ask why? Why would the gov care at all, why would they be watching Ketchum? What interest could they possibly have?
    Well for a moment lets consider the negative hypothesis, that the gov has no clue they are here and a body has never been found. Well in such a case, the gov would be the most interested in seeing the results of the study first. Afterall, before you release news that a potentially aggressive at time, 5 to 12 foot tall animal with beyond human strength, that was rarely seen, and could avoid detection at will, who at least has a small curiosity in children and women, has been living beside humantiy since the dawn of time, you want to make sure their isnt going to be any panic. You would want to know all the consequences of such information being broke, including ecological, political, and religious implications. This could and probably would take an extremely long time, as most people would be dumfounded to know that such an animal has been their without our and the governments knowledge. Therefore, they would have more of an interest in Ketchums work than anyone. This is all under the assumption that the gov has no clue. This also must indicate that if this study is real and that sasquatch samples have been submitted to ketchum, and the gov has no clue of its existence, then the gov must be very sociable in allowing ketchum to have those samples and not take them for themselves. Instead they have decided to be much more sociable and just watch the situation. Again, assuming that the gov has no clue.

    So now lets assume that the gov does have knowledge and always has. This would for starters make much more sense. It would explain why the gov would be watching if they truly are. Afterall the gov would care little about results as long as they are but mere rumors, and might as well idly sit back and watch until they figure out just how much evidence has been collected, who collected it, and then just move in before results are published and either allow the study to go through with their blessing, or simply not allow the study to come about. This is what i have thought would happen all along. But this is only my opinion.

    So why would they care yet again. Lets start with forestry. If these animals are proven real, the first thing that would be set up is protection for them, this would include habitat protection. This would greatly halt timber removal and clearcutting of their limited habitat, so right their you would have at least controversy, and at most an economical and industrial effect. Then you have religious beliefs. If bigfoot was proven to be related to us and be homo sapien on some level, then the evolutionary claim would have more bite. This would obviously upset religious communities and would at least be controversial. Then youd have the questioning of the gov itself. Afterall if the gov has either hidden this from us forever, or has had no knowledge of it, they both mean the same thing. That if our own gov doesnt know what is living in our woods and fields, especially when it is very large and potentially dangerous, although doubtful, then how can it protect us reliably. It would also make many wonder what else the gov knows that they are hiding. It would put alot of doubt in peoples minds as to what we truly have living in our world, and maybe we arent the dominant species. These are just but a few effects that such a discovery would have. These are facts, it would turn society upside down, literally. Some may not think it, but if you dont, think of this, would you feel totally safe letting your 6 year old play in your backyard that borders woods while you did the dishes, knowing that a 12 foot enormous animal lives in your area. While some say they may not care and that they are harmless, i seriously doubt people would feel totally secure. It is a kind of upsetting when you think of it.

    Again i mean no offense to anyone, i believe everyone should have their own opinion and everyones opinion matters. But if you truly cant understand why a gov would get involved almost assuredly, then you may want to read the document that is posted i believe on here. It is an official USFW document stating procedure on what to do when the discovery is made. It hints at what would at first be done and what great effect it would have. It would be a major governmental isssue. At least i firmly believe so, but i could be completely wrong. I hope we will all find out very soon.

    i dont understand why everyone is now doubting this story and Dr. Ketchums results whatever they may be when at first they believed it. (only talking to those for who it applies). I dont understand what has made is so unbelievable with the many stories that have been released, or what credibility if any has been taken away. Or why this whole thing is rediculous.

    If this story is true, which it seems to be on some level, their would be many different stories, afterall as the story is told around and becomes more public, different people will tell different things but yet the story will probably remain similar in its punch line. This would happen for alot of differnet reasons. Some people may be ellaborating and details may be wrong here and there but this story has remained consistant ever since it broke. Not only that but numerous organizations have backed it up saying that a shooting did happen, but not ellaborating. If this were just a fictitious tale, it would be shot down pretty quick as most hoaxes and rumors are, and their wouldnt be organizations that arent related coming forward acknowledging it. afterall the basic story has been, a dude was hunting bear, shot 2 bigfeet, one baby one adult, and thats it. What he did with them, who knows. Does ketchum have some of their remains, who knows. Was it illegal, who knows, but one thing that has stayed the same is that their was a shooting. The players are turning out to be real people who are acknowledging that it happened not that it is a hoax.

    Now is it real, i dont know, only a few people do at this point. But what is real is that their is the story and that its punch line isnt changing. what is real is that Ketchum who is a noted and respected scientist is working on a dna study of bigfoot with promising results. What is real is that biscardi is not involved. And what is real, is that just because people embelish here and there and add or remove facts, that doesnt mean that a story isnt true.

    So before people start to get dissappointed and start to have their doubts, please think about the stages things would go through when concerning a major controversial study and story. What would be happening is what we have here. Lets hope that what we all want though happens. Just dont get dissapointed or loose interest yet. I really do believe that something is getting ready to break that is of a big nature.

  23. flame821 responds:

    @ trapper990

    I honestly don’t think may people trust the government now. It started going downhill with Nixon and its kept declining. The last decade (both parties) are a complete fustercluck. So I don’t think the whole ‘did they/did they not’ know about BigFoot will have a huge impact on how the citizenry view the Government (at least in the USA, can’t speak for Canada, haven’t lived there since 5th grade).

    As for leaving your 6yo paying in the backyards by the woods, I would hope NO parent would do that now, at least not without a decent, sturdy fence boarding the yard from the woods. I live in a rural, touristy area and just in the last three days I have have groundhogs, raccoon, ducks, deer and hawks within 10 feet of my doors. (Hawk may have been higher, but it took a squirrel right off the line in front of my home, was without phone service for 2 days). If you have ANY idea what is in the woods you don’t let your children unattended, although, honestly, its more likely they’ll be taken by a pedophile than a BF or bear. And its still probably safer than letting them outside to play in Chicago or LA.

    As for religion, yeh, some will flip out. Others will come up with excuses like they always do. I can easily see “Descendants of Caine, Unforgiven after the fall” or something to that extent being used by several of the more… lets say charismatic religious leaders to placate their flock.

    About humans not being at the top of the food chain? Well, really, we aren’t. We are weak, comparatively frail and, again comparatively, have a slow fertility cycle. We have the ability to use technology and that is the only thing that’s preserved our rather weak butts. We learned to manipulate our environments; make clothing, fire, shelter, the wheel, machinery, now electronics, medicine. If it weren’t for our natural curiosity and love of problem solving we would have been left by the wayside like so many of our evolutionary ‘cousins’. If it weren’t for our inventions the average life expectancy would probably be 25 years.

    I don’t think finding out there is another upright primate is going to change that in the slightest. Especially if its somewhat cute. Disneyfication of the animal, good PR (panda, tigers, devils, wolverines) goes a long way in preserving many species. Dolphins are adorable and heaven knows many in the West give generously and will change buying habits to support brands that are ‘dolphin safe’. Same thing for the Panda and preserving its habitat.

    The human race is resourceful and resilient and I don’t see too many of us freaking out and starting anarchy over the discovery of a new species. Some will, but then some are just hanging on the edge looking for any excuse to go off the rails.

  24. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Lol.. even in politics if they want to play just nice they could just have the IRS audit for the past decade one of their political enemies. When dealing with potentially uncooperative politically incorrect Third World Nations such as Malaysia and their “Zinjanthropus Robustus”, I mean Bigfoot, that wouldn’t pan.

    Media Blackout desiring elements of the US shadow government/scientism establishment with fellow traveller behind the scenes UN assistance can always apply Aid, projects, World Bank leverage or palm greasing (that’s playin’ nice).

    That ever indirectly connected Mr. Lindsay has something to ponder here.

  25. DWA responds:

    Bottom line:

    If you aren’t smart enough to know that “bigfoot DNA” can’t be proven without a confirmed specimen to which to refer, and you don’t have a body, you got nothing.

    If you had a body, says here, we’d know.


  26. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Aww now, the scientism establishment has been known to describe in their literature entire new Genus & Species from head to toe from just a few partial jaw or skull fragments, or a skull cap (or less)… and crank up the multi-million dollar presses & get free advertising from their Media connections. They desire the targeted audience to Believe it & accept it at face value uncritically.

    Shouldn’t the scientists and researchers in the scientific field of Cryptozoology be able to do at least as much?

    Fresh steaks, intact femurs nearly double the size of a humans, along with several hundred other samples for DNA testing.

    Plus having eyewitness living observations associated with half of the samples sounds like more compelling evidence,

    Rather than taking the word of someone who just dug up a few mineralized bone fragments in Africa from under the ground with no eyewitness providence of an associated living creature & no DNA evidence.

  27. DWA responds:

    Red Earth White Lies:

    You may have a point. The point doesn’t matter.

    Here’s why:



    Science is nowhere near as ‘objective’ as most people, even scientists, will tell you it is.

    When science finds fossil skull and bone fragments – Gigantopithecus is “known,” and all the speculation based, on jaw fragments and teeth, and many many species are “known” on less than that – science knows: we ain’t finding anything else, because these are gone now. OK, they may find a complete skeleton, maybe even, you know, a coelacanth, but they know that the odds are extremely against that. So let the speculation begin, with this “knowledge”: we have a skull fragment, well, it looks like one, that looks like it came from an animal that looks like this. We think. Based on the living animals we know about.

    That ain’t proof, to me, but it’s good enough for science. Which makes it good enough for me.


    “They desire the targeted audience to Believe it & accept it at face value uncritically.” And we pretty much do, because, well, they are SCIENTISTS. And what do we know?

    Science will never buy DNA from a species they don’t believe could exist as proof that it does. They have good reason for so doing, just as you could argue they have good reason to shout GO for a skull fragment that may be the only piece we ever find of something. They can’t turn their disbelief on its head for DNA, no more than I can Believe based on somebody’s story of what they saw. Even if the evidence – tons and tons of consistent stories is evidence – says that they may just be right. (Besides: DNA testing can be squirrely, particularly with something unidentified. And scientists know it.)

    I hate the extraordinary-claims canard, but this is one place I can sort-of buy it. Science considers this an extraordinary claim and they need a specimen. They just can’t make themselves Believe that there has been all this smoke, all this time, and no fire (that is, no fire that they recognize).

    So, they don’t.

    I might agree with you. (I have said, and believe, that we have tons more evidence for sasquatch and yeti than we do for most if not all “known” dinosaurs.)

    Science, however, disagrees.

    And as we have seen: when they think it ain’t real, it ain’t.

    Until they say it is.

    Unless, of course, you’ve seen one. Be happy. You know they’re ignorant.

    I don’t. Yet.

  28. Red Earth White Lies responds:


    No such a thing as an “existence”-nebulous entity of ultimate reality “Science”, or “The Government” or “The Church” as the harbinger of intrinsic Enlightenment,

    Just some quantity of human beings doing whatever they decide, who more or less agree and decide on a matter and make something called “Law” which is simply what action they will do to someone who violates their agreement.

    Now humans can decide to speculate, see something visually & tag an attempt at describing a cause & effect as Hypothesis, Theory, whatnot & do some close minded or free thinking experiments & writeup on it however they want to spin it. And see if it can be duplicated in the Real World in real time today.

    Other than that… why should anyone take the word of self appointed humans as absolute reality?

  29. norman-uk responds:

    Red Earth White Lies

    I appreciate that there are a number of potential bigfoot DNA samples now ‘in custody’ but your statement I quote below seems have some unsupported detail. I don’t think we can quote from it until something more than hearsay comes along. Perhaps you have knowledge from personal experience to call upon which could provide some good backing?

    ”Fresh steaks, intact femurs nearly double the size of a humans, along with several hundred other samples for DNA testing.
    Plus having eyewitness living observations associated with half of the samples sounds like more compelling evidence ”

    One scenario that might fit the stories about a shot bigfoot is that one has been shot, but the perpetrator is worried about the consequences of what he has done and is feeding a concocted story to the public partly to explore reactions and partly to ease himself into position where he can come and pick up any commercial success he can, without punishment. Meanwhile the body is in cold storage somewhere!

    I do agree with you about the value of DNA samples.

  30. Red Earth White Lies responds:


    “…they were not to answer any more questions about this site… there would be no more communication about this site… as a matter of fact this site never exisited…!”


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