Updated: ABC Champ Video Conspiracy?
Posted by: Craig Woolheater on February 18th, 2012
In my latest post here on Cryptomundo of this video, one Cryptomundian left a cryptic comment that I felt was worthy of a separate post.
Here are the video stills I originally posted back in 2006.
Cryptomundian Champ Voucher left the following comment:
The reason you never see this entire video is because the owner of it knows that what is in it is not a Sturgeon, Pike, Eels or a “bundle of mating water snakes” as his inquisitive lawyer was told by a roomful of “qualified” Ichthyologists. It is a previously unidentified 16 foot long, 7 foot wide, long necked monster with a gaping mouth that could probably bite off a hand. To see the entire 1st generation copy will cost you $4000 and no reproduction rights. But to see (and possibly identify) what these beasties are …. it’s worth every penny ! These amazing animals will someday prove to be America’s greatest Zoological discovery.Champ Voucher
Is this the real reason that the video was pulled from youtube?
Is it indeed a living, breathing, swimming plesiosaur?
UPDATE:
Everything I said originally comes straight from the horse’s mouth. There is plenty more to this video and its history than has been revealed.
The people representing it have spoken to me in detail about it, and have relayed many things that are not publicly known.
ABC does not own any rights to it. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy as much as it representing a lawyer protected “Crypto-Cash Cow,” with a price tag and legal restrictions applied that keeps it out of the hands of the general public.
Pete knows what he has. He is a champion Lake Trout fisherman. It’s not a branch or a pike, sturgeon or anything that has been already identified in Champlain.
Fauna Communications will be releasing their findings on this video soon. They paid the price and then hired “one of the countries leading forensic evidence specialists” to examine it. They have size data, speed, depth and info like that coming. Plus Nat Geo has a new Champ special coming up in the Spring with Liz Von Muggenthaler + Fauna on board. I can’t get a straight answer if the Bodette video is going to be shown on it.
There is a lot of detail on that big body part that is only hinted at in ABC’s 3 second snippet. When it swims by, you see an impressively wide beast attached to that snake like neck.Champ Voucher
Co-founder of Cryptomundo in 2005.
I have appeared in or contributed to the following TV programs, documentaries and films:
OLN's Mysterious Encounters: "Caddo Critter", Southern Fried Bigfoot, Travel Channel's Weird Travels: "Bigfoot", History Channel's MonsterQuest: "Swamp Stalker", The Wild Man of the Navidad, Destination America's Monsters and Mysteries in America: Texas Terror - Lake Worth Monster, Animal Planet's Finding Bigfoot: Return to Boggy Creek and Beast of the Bayou.
Having a hard time with the logic there: the real reason it was pulled was because it was real?? If it’s real and their aims are to prove this, then showing a full-res version for the world to study makes the most sense. However, if you’re looking to earn…say…$4000 a pop for the original footage, then perhaps your motives are less altruistic.
4000$ to take a look at a possible misidentification? Bargain!
Has Champ Voucher seen this video that cost $4000.00 to view?!
“Is conspiracy the real reason that the video was pulled from Youtube?”
I am not of a conspiratorial mindset but when two similar videos undergo the same fate you have to wonder.
The other video I have in mind is the Alaskan Cadborosaurus footage, of course.
Is this a pattern?
Another question I can’t answer is, who would benefit from such a conspiracy? The discovery of large lake creatures would create new industries and be great for the economy.
I am an avid fisherman and go out on my local lake 2-3 times a week. I can tell you that what I see in the video, is without question, a tree banch under the water. I’m not saying that Champ doesn’t exist. In fact, I believe it does. I just don’t believe there is any big mystery to this particular video.
Sorry, I don’t buy any of this – sounds like baloney to me. If this was a video still of a “7 foot wide” “16 foot” creature would it have a head the size of a Northern Pike?
C’mon folks, this is a video of a Pike swimming. Show me a video like this where the thing actually comes up and raises its head when it is that close and I will believe it. Until then, NOT although I do think the lady’s photo from years ago is intriguing and still the best of any evidence if something does exist.
Hmmm – I don’t know… That is strange. To me – it kind of looks like the feeding tentacles of a squid… they appear to move backwards – like a squid would. I can’t find the pictures – but, I remember someone had posted some images of champ that appear to be tentacles too – they appeared to be red in color… Wish I could find them. Anyway, I would love to see the entire video… Why charge? Wouldn’t the recognition of getting a video of an undiscovered creature be enough?
I wouldn’t doubt it. It would definitely boost the economies of the area, but it would also, I think, cause a mass public panic. Lake Champlain is a major tourist destination and I think people would be a little nervous going out on the water knowing there was a species of aquatic animal swimming around that we know nothing about. I know I would think twice about swimming or boating on the lake.
William,
I’m sorry, but I don’t see a pike or a fish in this video. First off, you can clearly see that it appears to be a small head attached to a long neck. This is reinforced on the first screenshot as it clearly looks serpentine.
Second, there are no fins or flippers. The only exception would be the first screenshot, in which you can see something below the neck which appears to be a flipper.
If you’re seeing something that I’m missing which would support your Pike claim, please let me know.
Also, do you see any resemblance to Mansi’s 1977 Photograph (In which you were referring to) in regards to this caught on video? To me, it looks strikingly similar.
I personally believe there is a much bigger conspiracy then just this video conspiracy!
Strange how people who see or report to have video of champ all of a sudden drop out.
Dennis Hall for example. He was gung-ho on champ research until 2007. Now he has all but dropped off the face of the earth far as Champ research goes. At least publicly. One has to ask. Why???
Fauna Communications IMO seem to be the most respectable researchers on these creatures thus far. I am wondering how long it will be before Elizabeth von Muggenthaler drops off the face of the earth as well.
I find this to be very strange and very sad all at the same time.
@Aquahead Dan- Unless I am blind (I do use bi-focals) I fail to see any resemblance to the “Mansi” photo. Unless I am wrong isn’t that photo showing something clearly with its head ABOVE water? This thing looks below the water to me and the only clear thing I see about it is in the second photo where you can see a mouth (almost identical to a pike’s and teeth and an eye, again very much like a Northern Pike. The rest of the photo shows a tapering off much like a fish’s body (at least IMHO). I guess if you had a wild imagination you could see that as the continuation of a serpentine like neck but it gets to thin from my perspective for that to make sense. If it was a large creature the neck wouldn’t suddenly taper down to being pencil-thin would it?
The video was hugely disappointing as well. It was so unclear in quality as to be almost worthless IMO.
It is next to impossible for me to interpret what is shown in the frames and video as a creature that bears resemblance to a plesiosaur.
What I see is a long tentacle and then a shorter tentacle separated by an acute angle and possibly connected to the same body which would be underneath the boat.
If we assume the long tentacle to be the neck, the short tentacle is in too weird a position to be the left flipper of a plesiosaur. So, in my opinion, the creature (if it is a creature and not plant life) does not look like a plesiosaur.
If we mute the narration (which can be thought of as pro-lake monster propaganda), there is nothing truly interesting in the visual part. I am just trying to be as realistic as possible.
@William
To me, the shape looks similar to the Mansi photograph. That’s just what I’m seeing though. In the second and third screenshot, I will admit it’s strange how it appears to just taper off. However, in the first screenshot, you can see it goes under the boat and then some. I don’t see a fish, but then again I can’t identify this “creature” at all.
I’d ask too…where is “Champ Voucher” getting this information? Not common knowledge as far as I know. The last I’d heard was that ABC bought the rights to it and then it disappeared. I’d always just ASSumed they were squirreling it away for some sort of special, but then it just never resurfaced.
I’m also not sure if what was shown was the full video or a snippit or what. I’d have to know where this info is coming from and by whom, in order to decide if there was some sort of conspiracy going on. I mean, other than cash, I don’t see someone hanging onto something like that…and if they did indeed sell it to ABC, then they’ve got the rights to it.
As for the explanations…uh no, I don’t buy tree branch or it wouldn’t have “swam away” out of the camera eye and we’d know. As for fish, I already stated in my last posts why I don’t buy the fish argument.
I thought it was odd the footage hadn’t showed up in some sort of show, but then again the wheels of television do turn slowly. Look at the ill fated clip we were all waiting for, for months up around Alaska…and then when it aired, we still didn’t get to see anything more than the short clip we’d already seen…hmmm, we never did get to see more of that either…so maybe there is a giant, huge cover up of sea monsters…
I am a very much a conspiracy theorist. There is no shame in that. I wear it as a badge of honour when some mindless drone calls me that. I don’t believe in every conspiracy out there though. But when it comes to cryptozoology i am 110% certain that there is a coverup going on. One thing leads to another. Its even bigger than cryptozoology as the very nature of the history of the planet will be called into question if ‘prehistoric monsters’ are found alive. The rabbit hole is very very deep.
There is no question that the ABC footage is something out of the ordinary. Even if it is a giant squid, that is still amazing. Its not an ordinary fish. You have to be blind or in serious denial to claim that is a pike. What nonsense.
I too watched that MonsterQuest episode and was very excited by that lady who said she got echo location sounds from the lake. Ordinary lake fish like pike and sturgeon don’t do that now do they?
Champ is often touted as an American Nessie, and that may be so. Nessie and Champ are both supposed to have the classic up-turned boat shape that is usually seen in lake monsters in America, Europe, Australia, South America and Asia… anywhere there are the long, deep lakes that these creatures obviously need for their living spaces. But I do wish that people would stop insisting that they are plesiosaurs or some type of unknown pinniped. If these creatures were any type of air breather at all, we would have excursion boats following them around the lakes, like we do now with dolphins, whales, the known pinnipeds, orcas, and so forth. These creatures clearly have some sort of gill and only come to the surface rarely. That makes them fish or eels or something we haven’t run across yet. Whatever they are, they are not air breathers.
@Aquahead Dan: Upon closer review of the first photo, it appears to me that what is seen below the “creature” is more of what I believe to be Northern Pike swimming along. Now, I do not know that much about pike, and maybe they do not travel in schools or multiples so that may blow my theory out of the water (no pun intended), but the shot is so unclear it is very difficult to even speculate.
Looks like a pike to me…it’s tail end is drooping and there is distortion from the camera angle + water, making it look longer and thinner…no mystery.
@William
I went on YouTube and Google to look at videos and pictures of Pike swimming in the water. Among the videos, I found one that was blurry and taken underwater in a murky river. Comparing the videos and pictures to the above screenshots, I simply do not see a Pike, much less a fish in that picture.
I took the first picture, enhanced it by increasing the exposure and contrast, and then put it side by side a picture of a Pike. I can see where you would think there are some similarities, but I simply don’t see it. The “Champ” looks too long and serpentine, and there are no fins.
One more thing about the plesiosaur theory; the lake monster lakes are deep and COLD. Plesiosaurs were reptiles, ectotherms, cold-blooded, whatever you feel comfortable with in describing creatures that do not have an interior thermostat which keeps their metabolism revved up and their bodies warm.
If the lake monsters were plesiosaurs, the lake monster lakes would probably have a problem with crocodiles, alligators and caimans as well. But they don’t.
Looking again, I think there is a disconnect between the first image and the second two. If I wanted to come up with an explanation, I would say the first image shows two long fish swimming away from the boat. That makes sense, in the context of this story, because they are being chased by a giant sea monster of some sort. I don’t actually believe that, but it makes sense of the images.
On the second and third images, I am wondering about what I interpret to be the body of a the creature. If you look at them in sequence, it appears that the darker image at the top may be the receding reflection of the boat hull. It appears to be less distinct as you move from image one to three.
Watch the video again carefully, when the object first appears at 2:56, it seems to tilt its “head” toward the surface. At the same time, something else appears along side the boat. Assuming the objects are connected, that would imply that it is big and has appendages. That doesn’t mean its is anything in particular, it is just interesting.
Everything I said originally comes straight from the horse’s mouth. There is plenty more to this video and its history than has been revealed.
The people representing it have spoken to me in detail about it, and have relayed many things that are not publicly known.
ABC does not own any rights to it. I don’t think it’s a conspiracy as much as it representing a lawyer protected “Crypto-Cash Cow,” with a price tag and legal restrictions applied that keeps it out of the hands of the general public.
Pete knows what he has. He is a champion Lake Trout fisherman. It’s not a branch or a pike, sturgeon or anything that has been already identified in Champlain.
Fauna Communications will be releasing their findings on this video soon. They paid the price and then hired “one of the countries leading forensic evidence specialists” to examine it. They have size data, speed, depth and info like that coming. Plus Nat Geo has a new Champ special coming up in the Spring with Liz Von Muggenthaler + Fauna on board. I can’t get a straight answer if the Bodette video is going to be shown on it.
There is a lot of detail on that big body part that is only hinted at in ABC’s 3 second snippet. When it swims by, you see an impressively wide beast attached to that snake like neck.
Graybear,
I just finished reading an article on plesiousaurs:
It talked about how plesiousaurs gave birth to live young, and they had a bone structure like birds. They very well could have been warm blooded. I also read an article about a find of plesiousaurs’ bones in the antarctic, leading the researchers to believe that plesiosaurs could survive in frigid waters.
People latch onto plesiosaurs and long necked pinnipeds because it’s the only thing we’ve come across in the fossil record (well long necked pinnipeds haven’t been established, but it’s been a theory to compensate for the ‘reptile’ living in the cold water theory) that has a long neck.
From the large number of accounts all across the world that have come in from lakes, oceans, and bodies of water that have specifically described a head and long neck, I believe they’re out there. What they are specifically, I still don’t have an idea, but there have been consistently too many reports over a long span of time for me to say it’s not possible, and that they don’t exist.
To me this looks like a muskie rising in the water, except for one thing, on the right hand side there appears to be a small fish also rising. Normally a pike or a muskie would terrify a smaller fish like that and I assume a living dinosaur would also cause the same affect. The smaller fish doesn’t seem to be worried which leads me to the conclusion that what we are seeing is a sturgeon. I mean really, why would anyone deny the existence of a cryptid of this magnitude, it would be good for everyone. If this could be proved it would create a steady flow of cash paying tourists. I think it’s another three second blurry video that has no reason for its brevity. If I were holding that camera I would have been halfway in the water getting video and I would show it to anyone who would look at it.
Greenland Shark??? There was recent study that proved them in the St Lawrence. This could explain the ‘head shape’ and its obvious thinness as a greenland shark tail, the bulky thing as a body, and the color fits. It makes a lot of sense.
Springheeledjack; whatever article you read seems to have overlooked a few necessary facts. When it comes to reptiles and fish giving live birth, it is not unheard of; I believe that both rattlesnakes and great white sharks give live birth, which is really more a matter of incubating their eggs internally rather than with a placenta, like mammals. Bird like bones would not help a sea-going creature as it’s not buoyancy they need, but the ability to hover at a chosen depth. Most fish have solid bones and a swim bladder that functions as a skin divers buoyancy compensator, allowing them to choose a depth and pretty much stick to it. Penguins, which after all are birds, have pretty solid bones. As to the Antarctic fossils, at the time of the dinosaurs, which of course included the plesiosaurs, there were no ice caps and the Artic and Antarctic were differentiated mostly by the extended length of the winter and summer days and nights.
Believe me, I would like nothing better than to think there are still living plesiosaurs, but the physical facts of the lake monster lakes prevent that. A long necked pinniped would be delightful, too, but we would surely have evidence of them. I don’t know what the lake monsters are but it’s pretty clear that something is there and that it sort of resembles a plesiosaur, but the marsupial lion closely resembles the placental wolf. Maybe some day we’ll know what they are. If this ever comes to pass, I think we’ll all be surprised. Can’t wait, I love surprises!
I find the video clip somewhat more interesting than most “sea monster” footage, but it says right there in the news piece that the clip was the best footage they captured.
So now there’s more? Or is it that when we see a clear first generation copy of that very same clip, all the mystery will wash away? Somehow I doubt that.
Sounds like nobody’s been knocking down the video owner’s door the past five years, trying to make him rich, so now there’s “more to the story”. And as usual, the whole affair turns out more sideshow than scientific.
“Step right up and buy a ticket to see the whatzit behind the curtain! No photography allowed! I promise you won’t be disappointed folks!”
@ Graybear plesiousaurs were not reptiles, they were dinosaurs which were in fact thought to be warm blooded.
Also I can 100% see why the government would want to cover up a possible extremely endangered species living in a huge body of water that is a major tourist destination not to mention all the industry tied to the lake. It is quite the same as the timber and cattle industry and bigfoot.
I remember seeing this video when it first came out, and commenting on it here. I STILL think the “creature” is nothing but a reflection of a cloud. The apparent movement is just the water ripple that the movement of the boat is making causing the reflection to change, just above to the right you can see the reflection of what looks like another boat as well. Just watch the video carefully.
I really do not think that they saw something in the water right then and were trying to tape it, they probably just noticed it as they were watching it back.
My 2 cents. 🙂
lordoftheonionrings: sorry, but the plesiosaurs were not dinosaurs, but marine reptiles. The pterosaurs were not dinosaurs, either. They both simply lived at basically the same time as the dinosaurs; so did giant chelonians (turtles), and huge crocodilians, which were also not dinosaurs. The designation of dinosaurs is mostly based on pelvis architecture and is split into two basic categories, the bird-hipped and the lizard-hipped. If a creature doesn’t fit into one of these two categories, it isn’t a dinosaur. It may be huge and have many of the characteristics of a dinosaur, but unless the pelvic architecture is dinosaurian, its something else.
OK, I have to clarify something. @ Lordoftherings, Plesiosaurs are sauropterygians, NOT dinosaurs.
Classification wise, they do not have dinosaurian features. Which means they are marine reptiles and are Non-archosaurian (dinosaurs are archosaurs like crocodiles) like mosasaurs.
Here is a link on cladistics and the classification of Plesiosaurs.
Here is the break down of necessary features of sauropterygians, from plesiosauria.com.
” * Single (upper) supratemporal fenestra (the lower temporal fenestra was lost – an excavated cheek margin is a remnant in many taxa)
* Closed palate of which the pterygoids cover the basis cranii (brain case) ventrally.
* lack of the following bones of the skull supratemporal, postparietal, and tabular (and lachrimal?).
* retracted nares – situated close to the orbit rather than on the snout tip.
* large retroarticular process on the mandible
* three to six sacral vertebrae
* lack of [ossified] sternum (maybe this was a cartilaginous element).
* divided scapulocoracoid
* pectoral and thyroid fenestration scapula lies superficially to the clavicle (i.e. the posterior part of the clavicle overlies the anterior part of the scapula)
* small ilium
* humerus lacks ectepicondylar foramen”
Here is a break down of dinosaurian features from Wikipedia.
“* in the skull, a supratemporal fossa (excavation) is present in front of the supratemporal fenestra
* epipophyses present in anterior neck vertebrae (except atlas and axis)
* apex of deltopectoral crest (a projection on which the deltopectoral muscles attach) located at or more than 30% down the length of the humerus (upper arm bone)
* radius shorter than 80% of humerus length
* fourth trochanter (projection where the caudofemoralis muscle attaches) on the femur (thigh bone) is a sharp flange
* fourth trochanter asymmetrical, with distal margin forming a steeper angle to the shaft
* on the astragalus and calcaneum the proximal articular facet for fibula occupies less than 30% of the transverse width of the element
* exocciptials (bones at the back of the skull) do not meet along the midline on the floor of the endocranial cavity
* proximal articular surfaces of the ischium with the ilium and the pubis separated by a large concave surface
* cnemial crest on the tibia (shinbone) arcs anterolaterally
• distinct proximodistally oriented ridge present on the posterior face of the distal end of the tibia “
I know this all can be confusing, cladistics is often a headache in the making and always changing. But it’s been pretty certain, based on features, marine reptiles are not dinosaurs they evolved from different evolutionary ancestors than dinosaurs.
Now with that said, it doesn’t mean the critters weren’t warm blooded. Sharks like Makos and Great Whites as well as Tuna are. They have organs called retia mirabilia (the dark meat on a turn stake) that helps to regulate temperature with muscle movement.
Also marine animals like the leather back turtles are gigantotherms, which means their warmbloodness comes from size. It’s likely that Plesiosaurs were closer to gigantotherms because they are not fish like the mackrel sharks, and tuna.
Now, I’m not sure about the ABC video, I’m a bring on the body kind of gal. Is it scientifically possible for a plesiosaur to still be alive today? It is possible, anything is, but I think we need more than a few sonar readings, rumors/stories/conspiracy theories, and photos to show that champ is a living plesiosaur and NOT a surgeon.
Now with that said, the kid in me squees at the idea of a living plesiosaur, I’d love it to be true just because it would be awesome.
Epp! Sturgeon not surgeon! LOL sorry about that!
What has happened to this thread? Has anyone checked with Liz Von Muggenthaler and Fauna Communications?
Graybear,
The point is, it certainly is possible that a plesiosaur could live in cold water. I understand the nature of the Antarctic at the time period of the dinosaurs, but the bones were found in a place and time that was cold. As to the bird bones…doesn’t mean they were birds, but that they were most likely descended from birds and evolved to their environment. Whales at one time lived on land and then moved back to the water…same principle. And to say that a plesiosaur as the culprit is impossible is the wrong way to approach it too–we know very little about them–it’s just come to light from the one fossil sample that plesiosaurs gave birth to live young, something we didn’t know before.
As for the long necked pinnipeds, yeah they haven’t been discovered in the fossil record, but the fossil record is not even close to complete. A long necked pinniped may well not exist, but again, it’s a possibility and one that I think came about as a way to explain how a long necked critter could survive in places like Ness and Champlain.
Personally, I don’t think it’s a plesiosaur either…however, I’m of the mind that it is certainly something with a long neck and head that resembles a plesiosaur, at least in shape and design. Whether it’s something evolved from ancient plesiosaurs, a critter we haven’t discovered in the fossil record yet, or maybe something closer to home we hadn’t thought of, I don’t know. I continually look through evidence and the information we do have on reptiles, mammals and dinosaurs trying to wrap my head around it. We can probably discuss this back and forth for months, but in the end, unfortunately, we’re probably gonna need a body before we can get the real truth.
I owe Lordoftheonionrings an apology, I called him/her lordoftherings, my bad.
@springheeledjack, good point about the fossil record, we have about 4 percent of the fossil record. Fossils don’t form easily since the body need specific conditions to fossilize. Just because it isn’t in the record, doesn’t mean it can’t exist.
If Champ exists I’d put my money on a long necked pinniped, or a cetacean. There are fossil whales in the Lake Champlain basin. It used to be an ocean. Apparently they also have seal fossils as well.
Fossils in general in the Basin.
Sorry, but marine reptiles were NOT DINOSAURS. They branched off very early, well before Dinosaurs came to dominate the landscape. The same is true for flying reptiles or Pterosaurs. They are a separate evolutionary branch.
The animal people are reporting is not a Plesiosaur. Plesiosaurs were air breathers. This combined with the numbers required for a breeding population means they would be seen frequently surfacing to breath. Just sayin’
Bah !
I don’t think it’s a plesiosaur. Looking at it in Google, the head seems small. This creature in Lake champ seems to have a wider head. I have a feeling it’s a Augustasaurus or a species from that creature. My theories range to plesiosaur, long necked pinniped, attenborosaurus, Thalassomedon, Elasmosaurus, Muraenosaurus and Augustasaurus for the lake champ creature. I didn’t see a body so I wonder if it’s some type of Thalassomedon or Elasmosaurus. I wonder if any sightings compare to a Thalassomedon and Elasmosaurus.
I don’t know if it’s the same creature or related to the creature in Lochness (exceptional would be a long necked pinniped.) The Lochness creature I think it can be a Microcleidus or a plesiosaur or new species of Microcleidus/plesiosaur. It’s in the plesiosaur suborder. Lots of sea creatures have long neck with large bodies. Microcleidus seems to have a huge fat body with flippers. Plus the suppose plesiosaur carcass doesn’t have a long neck like most plesiosaur do. Don’t know if it was a young one, but could be a type of long neck species with a shorter neck then most plesiosaur. Like the Microcleidus, or a Rhomaleosaurus.
They said this creature was serpentine like, then a pinniped might not be the case. They do not look serpentine. At least from what I know. Although, Lake Champ and Lochness could inhabit more than one different long necked and/or prehistoric creature that was suppose to be extinct. The creature that washed ashore on Monterey Bay, California in 1925 had a fat head compared to fossils of plesiosaur. Not all animals go fossilized so some of these sightings can very well be unknown animals with long necks.
The lake van video is another example of what I’m trying to say. Not all creatures can be plesiosaur! It’s either unknown to fossil records or known to fossil records.. I think this creature in the lake van video is some type of short necked animal (example: Kronosaurus, etc.).