Olympic Project’s Derek Randles on Sasquatch Shootings

Posted by: Craig Woolheater on July 16th, 2011

There has been much discussion here at Cryptomundo and elsewhere regarding the shooting of two Sasquatch last year.

Cryptomundian RWRidley alerts us to this exciting update.

Now Derek Randles of the Olympic Project offers up the “official” version of the story.

He has interviewed the hunters who claim to have shot an adult and a juvenile Sasquatch.

Below is the account of the shooting as relayed by Derek.

This incident occurred in October of 2010 in Northern California. The persons involved will be known as Hunter 1, and Hunter 2. Hunter 1 is the shooter. Hunter 2 was driving the vehicle.

While driving down a dirt road looking for bear, hunter 1 and hunter 2 were noticing large piles of feces along their route. They commented on the amount they were seeing, and at the strange nature of it. They were having a rough time figuring out what was responsible. To big for Cougar, and didn’t appear to be bear. It is important to note that they were hunting at considerable elevation. It’s also important to note that they were legally hunting, with appropriate bear tags in a legal hunting area.

As the truck came around a corner they both noticed a large hair covered figure standing approx 80 to 100 yards in a meadow off to the side of the road. (On the Bigfoot forum I previously said it was off to the left, that was my mistake, it was actually off to the right of the road.) The figure was standing on two legs with it’s arms above it’s head. It took roughly eight to ten steps toward the vehicle. The arms were moving a little either because it was walking, or it was intensionally swaying them. It was dirty grey in color with some black mixed in. The figure was very large. Hunter 1 decided it had to be a bear. It was completely hair covered, and from that distance good definition was impossible. Hunter 1 got out of the truck and leaned against the door aiming his riffle at the figure. He does admit that it looked strange but in his mind it had to be a bear. He did not believe in Bigfoot at that time. Hunter 2 was now looking at the figure and said ” I’m not sure that’s a bear”. The shot was fired hitting it’s mark in the chest region. The figure went down. It got back up immediately and started running on two legs, and then on all fours. It went from two legs to four legs a couple of times before it left view. A short time later they were very sure they heard it crash into the brush, although they never did confirm this. They couldn’t believe what they were seeing.

They exited the truck and started across the meadow still wondering what just happened. When they reached the spot where it was standing they noticed movement in the nearby brush. Two smaller figures appeared from the brush and started circling around their position. The smaller ones were totally hair covered, but were much more black in color. They would go back and forth from two legs to four. They were exhibiting some type of chatter back and forth to each other. Hunter 1 and Hunter 2 described them as a cross between a gorilla and a bear. They said that they had very large heads, almost too big for their bodies. They also stated that the little ones had a much flatter face than a bear. They spent as much time on two legs as they did on four. The smaller figures began getting closer and closer, at on point, just a few yards. One of them climbed up a small outcrop above hunter 1. Hunter 1 started to get the feeling he might be attacked. He made a quick decision, turned and fired. The figure went down and rolled right down to Hunter 1’s location. He lifted it up, and then placed it in the brush. They then decided that they needed to leave, now.

I, Derek Randles was put in touch with the hunters about two weeks later. I interviewed them both by phone extensively, and separately. I found that their story matched perfectly with no inconsistency’s. I could also tell that they were natural and not rehearsed. Consequently, I’ve spent many many hour talking with hunter 1 one about all aspects of the story, and I completely believe him.

I then urged hunter 1 to return to the site and look around for any evidence from the incident. Upon returning they were greeted with roughly two feet of snow. The little one was not found. They concentrated their efforts in the area where they thought they heard the larger one go down. After digging though the snow for many hours they were able to find a piece of flesh, greasy fat and hair, but no body. The flesh and hair matched the color of the larger one exactly. White gray hair with some black in it.

I then asked him to forward a small piece of the flesh to Dr. Ketchum to have it analyzed for the current DNA study she’s involved in. I cannot speak to the results at this time due to an NDA I’ve signed, but I will say that I 100% believe the story. Read into that what you will.

The site has been under snow since last November. Further study of the site is ongoing. To date, no bodies have been recovered or found. If and when a body or remains is discovered, the appropriate authority’s will be notified.

The Olympic Project and Dr. Melba Ketchum do not advocate or condone the killing of a Sasquatch to advance science. That being said, if this sample can help with species verification and protection, then some good can come from a unfortunate incident. It’s also important to note that this is but one of over a hundred samples the Olympic Project has contributed to this study.

Updates on this story will be available on this web site, and the story in it’s entirety will be told by Hunter 1 when the time is right.

Thank You,
Derek Randles.

About Craig Woolheater
Co-founder of Cryptomundo in 2005. I have appeared in or contributed to the following TV programs, documentaries and films: OLN's Mysterious Encounters: "Caddo Critter", Southern Fried Bigfoot, Travel Channel's Weird Travels: "Bigfoot", History Channel's MonsterQuest: "Swamp Stalker", The Wild Man of the Navidad, Destination America's Monsters and Mysteries in America: Texas Terror - Lake Worth Monster, Animal Planet's Finding Bigfoot: Return to Boggy Creek and Beast of the Bayou.

39 Responses to “Olympic Project’s Derek Randles on Sasquatch Shootings”

  1. RWRidley responds:

    It comes off as a much more reasonable accounting of the shooting. The only thing that seems out of place is this:

    After digging though the snow for many hours they were able to find a piece of flesh, greasy fat and hair, but no body. The flesh and hair matched the color of the larger one exactly. White gray hair with some black in it.

    I would think finding a hunk of flesh would be extremely rare given the amount of scavengers in the wild.

  2. mandors responds:

    The weakest link in this story is the return trip and the snow, specifically digging for hours and then fortuitously finding not a body but small bits of flesh, fat and hair. Assuming for purposes of argument that the first part of the story is true, there is no guarantee that the samples came from the actual killed Bigfoot.

    Also, without questioning the veracity of the hunters, I find it interesting that they were prepared to hunt bear which in those parts means brown bear or grizzly which get to close too a thousand pounds, but were not willing or able to return with the large Sasquatch.

  3. hossoso responds:

    Oh, those NDA’s. I am going to start using that with my wife. I wonder if the NDA that Derek signed was in California? As I understand it that would give him a significant advantage, should he decide to dispense with the cloak, the dagger, the smoke and the mirrors. But that is not going to happen, is it?

  4. ETxArtist responds:

    Yeah, the hunk of fatty meat is goofy, too much like “a pound of flesh,” to quote Shakespeare. Also, the on-all-fours thing makes me think of that picture of the Pennsylvania “baby Bigfoot” that BFRO was touting several years ago. Totally bogus, in my opinion. I can’t wait to see how this shakes out.

  5. flame821 responds:

    Okay, you go to high elevations looking for bear.

    You see something large and covered in fur, confirmational bias would lead you to think ‘bear’ even if things seem off. After all, what else would it be. Running on 2’s and 4’s is common in great apes as is the upright with swaying arms.

    From the description given the mature Bigfoot had a more pronounced muzzle and/or jaw/nose than the immature ones. Also common in primates.

    As for going back two weeks later, at high elevation and deep snow, I just don’t know about this. IF both Bigfoot were actually killed as opposed to stunned or wounded, I would have expected to either had the bodies drug off by scavengers or to be buried under the deep snow.

    This account is absolutely more reasonable that the ones I’ve read on Lindsay’s site, but it still has some iffy parts for me. And a previous commentor was correct; if all that was found was a hunk of flesh with a bit of fur on it, they cannot say without a doubt that it came from the animal they shot.

  6. kittalia responds:

    Just wondering, have there been any other accounts of them running on four legs as well as two?

  7. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Now it’s making perfect sense.

    Larger predator(s) began to feed on the body shortly thereafter; starts ripping off strips & tearing into it. Then after having been sated by the 1st meal, the large predator caches the body some distance elsewhere for later feeding.

    Or, perhaps male Sasquatch(s) of the clan recover the body(s) for some degree of burial, cannabalism or whatnot.

    Within days of the shooting freezing temperatures & accumulating snowfall begins to hide the odor & sight of torn scraps better descibed as hairy skin with a greasy cold weather fat layer & some meat (in that order) from future scavengers.

    It’s a common fad of many modern hunters to use a “just adequate” cartridge for bear in the lower 48 so as not to develop a flinch when practicing, and allow a fast repeat 2nd anchoring shot, and have a very flat shooting round in case the spur of the moment shot is at 75 yards or at 350 yards to make easy use of a bear tag.

    Hence the sources declaring a .25-06 gun was used… which, when not hitting heavy bone & going between the ribs where weaker, at close range would cause tremendous hydrostatic shock destruction on soft organ tissue as the lungs. Which explains why, though Sasquatch being much tougher than bears, a mucher weaker female succumbed to a single bullet.

    Now will anyone comment on the estimated height & weight of the mother & offspring, provide artist sketches under the direction of the eyewitnesses & comment on the brow, eye, nose, teeth & tounge physiology, if possible. I suppose a saggital crest & pronounced brow ridges would be seriously lacking in pre-adolescent Sasquatch cubs.

  8. AZCRO_ALEX responds:

    Well I was about to post this and I crashed my PC? Oops, Lets see if I can re-write this so it makes since and isn’t disjointed:

    I am going to say something here that is against what you might think my opinion would be. My other posts might lead you to believe I would think this situation, is OK. I do not! I don’t think this really reflects on Melba Ketchum or Derek Randles, as neither is at fault here from the sounds of things.

    However, I can’t say the same about this hunter or so called hunter?

    Why is he shooting at something unless he is sure as to what it is? By his own words (according to Derek), the creature was walking towards him from 100 yards away, waving it’s arms? Well as far as I know Bears in CA are the same as Bears anywhere else and don’t have arms? It even says ARMS SWAYING? Sounds like they were at it’s sides at least some of the time? When a Bear Stands, it’s front PAWS, do not look anything like swaying arms…

    He was in no danger when he first fired. He also had not yet identified his target as a bear completely either! He certainly didn’t assess the situation to see if there were cubs around as he should have done, to make sure he was shooting a male or female bear with out cubs… By his own words, this creature did have cubs or children?

    There is no hunting season for female bears with cubs. There are no provisions for shooting Primates in the CA hunting rules and regulation abstracts. In CA if there is no hunting season for a specific animal then that means you can’t shoot at it.

    Some states word this LAW different and some don’t.

    Here’s what CA says about shooting BEARS and the shooting, Harassment, herding or driving of non-game animals (Basically any animal, or Bird not listed as having a hunting or trapping season in the abstracts).

    Ҥ365. Bear.

    (c) Bag and Possession Limit: One adult bear per season. Cubs and females accompanied by cubs may not be taken. (Cubs are defined as bears less than one year of age or bears weighing less than 50 pounds.)

    §251.1. Harassment of Animals.

    Except as otherwise authorized in these regulations or in the Fish and Game Code, no person shall harass, herd or drive any game or nongame bird or mammal or furbearing mammal. For the purposes of this section, harass is defined as an intentional act which disrupts an animal’s normal behavior patterns, which includes, but is not limited to, breeding, feeding or sheltering. This section does not apply to a landowner or tenant who drives or herds birds or mammals for the purpose of preventing damage to private or public property, including aquaculture and agriculture crops.

    §472. General Provisions.

    Except as otherwise provided in Sections 478 and 485 and subsections (a) through (d) below, nongame birds and mammals may not be taken.”

    You can rest assured that in Sections 478 & 485 subsections a-d, do not apply to Bigfoot or I would have posted them.

    I think this hunter should be scared about being prosecuted?

    It sounds like he was shooting when he shouldn’t have been and is at least guilty of breaking hunting regulations or at the most is guilty of either Murder, Attempted Murder, or Manslaughter?

    Murder or Manslaughter while hunting in CA, and he would probably get off. The precedents have already been set and re-affirmed just recently here.

    However CA might get all green and environmental over a Bigfoot and a bigfoot child being shoot?

  9. RaceBannon responds:

    Dear Kittalia,
    That would be a GREAT post for Loren with his extensive collection of Squatch reports. I have only heard one source which states that the young go from two feet to their feet and hands at times… but I personally can’t remember reading any articles/reports to that effect.

  10. Redrose999 responds:

    Well this story makes more sense than the last. Less over the top drama that reads like a poor bigfoot fanfic.
    I will say that I’m a little alarmed the chap fired at the animal before positively IDing it. I’m also alarmed he left a dying humanoid child alone without any attempt to help it and to top it off, abandoned the remaining living sibling alone in the wild to fend for itself. 00;

    I’m not a hunter, I don’t know about regulations, I do know that remains in general last in the wild for a very short time. I’m impressed they found ANY flesh chunks. Even with snow, animals eat.

    I’m in wait in see mode, but none of my eggs are in this basket. I’m just here for the trainwreck value of this debacle.

  11. Paul78 responds:

    If he couldn’t confirm what he was aiming at was he not concerned it could have been a human that looked odd?

    Also as others stated, anyone who had shot a bigfoot wouldn’t in their right mind leave it! I’m sorry no one is going to get prosecuted for killing an unknown animal and confirming it, if i am wrong does anyone know a historical precedent?

    I also find the chunk of flesh thing strange too

    Also can anyone confirm if high elevations in Northern Californa have been covered in snow since last november?

  12. j stewart responds:

    As a hunter I can assure you that I nor anyone I know ever shoot at any animal that was walking upright and waving its arms. I would be interested to know the specifics of the rifle used. What caliber and if it had a scope. Most hunt with a scoped rifle and the high magnification would make identification easy or at least seeing that it was no bear. For a hunter to fire his weapon at any target that he is not 100% sure of what it is is criminal. What would he have done had he shot and it fell dead and it was a guy wearing an animal skin coat. I find this story to be less than easy to stomach. Any rifle large enough in caliber and power to kill a bear should have dropped the biped in its tracks if he indeed hit the chest area. This whole story stinks to me. Even if true, it smells of the type of person who gives hunters a bad name and need to be jailed for what is a clear criminal act.

  13. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Other than a token “Bigfoot” specific law in a particular county in California (if one even existed) the shooter appears to have broken no California Statute. Bears live about 18 to 25 years (human 80), reach sexual maturity at 4 to 6 on average (13 human average) and cubs stay with the mother between 2 to 3 years old.

    1) The appearance of cubs was not connected to the mother at any time in the course of observation of the mother – he’s in the clear with a witness to boot.

    2) The cubs’ chronological age (apes average 1/2 the lifespan of humans) was well over 1 year (“human 4 year olds”) in bear age legal requirement. The ape-human hybrid cubs were well over the equivalent 2 to 3 years old.

    3) No legal definition of harrassment of game occured at any time with all 3 animals – according to law, the moment he felt threatened to any degree of potential injury he was allowed to shoot, welll before the cubs were a few yards away.

    4) A large animal is regulated as either:

    Season restricted game – typical e.g. Bear, Deer

    Protected/Endangered – may not be shot except in life threatening defense – typical e.g. Eagle, Ocelot, Cougar in certain cases. Fine may still be levied & no body parts may be kept by the shooter.

    Quadrapeds etc. outside of the above classes are usually classified as Vermin – typical e.g. Coyotes AND Coy-Dog HYBRIDS. May be killed often at anytime along with cubs and body parts kept.
    State laws can vary somewhat.

    Sasquatch as a primarily carnivourous hunter of deer makes them far more dangerous legally than mostly herbivore African apes, and like it or not classifies them legally as predator vermin (in the strictest legal sense, as a Coy-feral dog hybrid similarly). Being a hybrid loses legal protection in the strictest sense of the law & “kennel club” pedigree for scientific classification.

    As the original Asian or South American giant apes may be capable of protection Genus/Species wise, the Hybrid 1/4 of the way to humans, or 1/2 way to humans, or even 3/4 of the way to humans with a 1st or 2nd generation “kidnapping/sexual assualt” progeny is an “all over the map” variable Genuses & Species pulled out of the hat what ever you want to call it.

    Killing South American, African & Pacific Homo Sapiens who attempted to shrink your head or eat you last Century isn’t murder, so legally shooting a hybrid ape-man predominately carnivore is in comparison on a slippery slope of quicksand protection-wise.

  14. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Oh I should additionally add that back in the East years ago we, including DNR & enforcement gave our opinions that anyone dressing up as Bigfoot, or a bear or a deer in season for that matter & running around in the woods for a joke or “vegan political statement” was taking his life in his own hands, or attempted suicide.

    Anyone shooting such a person mistakenly was to be charged with involuntery manslaughter or accidental homicide with any jail time dismissed.

    Squatch is on even shakier ground in most areas.

  15. springheeledjack responds:

    Okay, first things first. Kittalia and RaceBannon (nice handle by the way): I THINK that on Finding Bigfoot (can’t remember the episode) I recall Bobo saying that he knew that sometimes they had been seen running on all fours, though for the life of me, I don’t recall ever having seen a report of that happening. I think that’s why the words stuck in my head…either that or senility…

    Second. I have a question. Is the Olympia Project in some way connected with the Erickson Project or are they separate animals? From the original posts by the “smoking gun” about this shooting a bigfoot business, I thought there was some link alluded to between them. Set me straight…inquiring minds need to know.


  16. bfseeker responds:

    I was very intrigued when I first heard and read this story (on a couple of sites) but after hearing this story a few more times (different every time) I am beginning to not believe the story at all. Where do I start, I am very familiar with the area this is supposed to have happened and I would be surprised if there wasn’t snow on the ground at elevation even in October or was it November?? The story keeps changing. Who hunts bear with a 25-06? That’s a small rifle, my dad used to use one for deer hunting and I can remember him saying it was nearly too small for mule deer but he liked how flat it shot. Not much knock down power. I agree with the other comments about shooting something without knowing what it was. What if it was someone that was lost and was trying to flag them down? The first story said the BF had to use the road because of the terrain, now there is a meadow? I could go on and on but I will end on this, someone said no one would leave the body and I agree. It would be priceless scientifically. I don’t want to see any Bigfoot harmed ever but if this did happen it could have been the beginning of protection for our beloved Bigfoot.

  17. Nominay responds:

    Most of you lampooned Lindsay for passing on fiction in the first place. And I don’t mean the details, or his version, but the story itself, that there was ever a shooting. And if I had a coin for every time I read “hoax” here, I’d be swimming in money. Now Randles rehashes his version, and somehow it’s now real after all? Well well well…

    You have to remember Randles really, really, really didn’t ever want this story to come out! But his is the credible version because it has less drama? Please…

    You really have to question who has motives here.

  18. RWRidley responds:

    Nominay – The one glaring difference between Lindsay’s story and Randles’ is that Randles comes directly from the shooter. That’s why Randles’ version is given a bit more weight. Lindsay himself has stated that he never wants to talk to the shooter because he hates him based on his online activity. It’s a slippery slope when someone claiming to be a journalist lets his personal feelings trump his journalistic duty.

    No offense intended towards Lindsay. He’s certainly entitled to report this story anyway he wants, but he (and you) have to understand a second hand story can’t really be considered valid. The story of the shooting is far fetched on its own, but when you add the element that it was a story told to an unnamed source who was told by another unnamed source it becomes even less plausible.

  19. dawgdoc responds:

    Is the story changing because this is what really happened, or is someone responding to criticism of the original story? This version would certainly explain why no one has an actual body (and the ensuing media storm). A large chunk of flesh would provide the huge amount of DNA samples that someone apparently boasted about.

    If bodies are still out there, and assuming they haven’t been moved or buried by other Bigfoot, there should be some skeletal remains, even if they were scavenged. Anyone know how far bear or cougar can carry these size bodies?

  20. flame821 responds:

    Bodies wouldn’t be in their ‘original’ size if a predator or scavenger got to them. They’d be rendered fairly quickly as most animals will gorge themselves while they can.

    If you are very, very lucky you MIGHT find a stray bone or tooth, but its needle in a haystack time. Depending on the altitude you’ll have to contend with both larger mammals, (Bear, cougar, coyote/wolf) and smaller mammals (mostly rodents) as well as birds, bacteria and weather.

    If the elevation is high enough, ground hard enough and weather hasn’t been ‘too’ bad. (torrential rains washing away/moving the bones, burying the bones) and you have a lot of luck on you side you might find something, but I wouldn’t put money on it.

  21. Nominay responds:

    At least I’m interested in finding the truth which is more than I can say for you and others, who take the word of someone for whom telling the truth serves a conflict of interest. But that’s okay, because the truth will out at the end of the day, starting today in spite of his wishes.

    For those who have irresponsibly trashed Lindsay for his reporting, this is how he curtly explains the lowdown (through an exchange with a poster on his site). It is in response to THIS thread we’re on.

    July 16, 2011 at 4:40 PM

    By the way, there’s a new post on cryptomundo about the dead Sasquatches. The story is similar to the one we are familiar with, but it makes the hunters seem more threatened and overwhelmed, and therefore pushed to do the shootings from a self-defense standpoint (even the juvenile one, since they apparently circled closer and closer and acted aggressively.) Still, there’s talk of returning weeks or months later and digging for hours in the snow to find only a fragment of hairy, fatty flesh, which the commenters had trouble with in terms of credibility. Basically people liked the first part of the story more, but the second part less.

    Robert Lindsay
    July 16, 2011 at 8:58 PM

    That version is from the shooter himself. It’s his latest, greatest version that is designed to make him look good. My version is the original version from Taxidermy.net before he changed his story.

    Nominay continues (end of exchange). To me, it is transparent that Randles statement is C-Y-A. He should have recused himself from making a statement on what happened. There are more holes in his version than you are aware of, and I can give a 10 point presentation on that later if I’m so inclined.

    The shooter is Justin Smeja. I’m not going to name my source for this, because I tricked him into telling me and he has no idea this controversy is going on. For now I’ll just say he’s at least as good as Lindsay’s source, if not better.

    Does the picture seem clearer now? I’m going to see if you guys can fill in the blanks before I say more.

  22. Brandonwwwyki responds:

    Ok, time to call a little BS to this story. A hunter can shoot an animal if it feels their life is in danger, which in this case it was. Here is two problems I have, first like you guys I agree that their is no bear that walks on its hind legs with its long arms up in the air. So right there it should have warned these guys.

    The second thing is simple. You shoot an adult and young sasquatch and do not take the bodies? At least the little one? Come on that is your golden ticket to being a millionaire. Every Rifle and Ammunition company wants to be the one to say they brought down a legend. So I’m not buying it.

    To the guy who said he is hunting Black Bears and Grizzly that get over 1000 lbs. Not in that part of the woods. Grizzly only reside near Yellowstone in the lower 48 and litter Alaska and Canada, but there have been no Grizzly seen in 100 years in California.

    Finally them saying when they went back up there they spent hours digging through heavy snow for this creature. How did they make it back up their to look for these things? Snowmobile? A truck wouldn’t go through heavy snow. A lot doesn’t add up.

  23. whiteriverfisherman responds:

    Oh boy!! Yet another official account and once again the story completely changes. I wonder when the next version will come out. This story is getting deeper and deeper. Gonna need chest waders pretty soon.

  24. RWRidley responds:

    whiteriverfisherman and everyone else – Keep in mind, the story appears to be changing all the time because they are coming from different sources. This version, Randles, is the first version gotten directly from the alleged shooter.

  25. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Reviewed some 50 or so writeups some while back on separate shooting incidents of anything Sasquatch occuring over the past 150 years, with only a quarter resulting in a dead Sasquatch. Half of the reports indicated the caliber used, number of rounds fired, indicated where & how the target was hit along with vocal & physical responses of the animal.

    The smallest female near adult/adult Sasquatch (using the term broadly as in NAPE) ever reported killed was reported to be at least as difficult to kill as a large black bear/below average to medium size grizzly of 50% greater weight than the female Squatch. Of course Sasquatch males of corresponding size & hybridization are at least one foot taller and three times the strength of females. Additionally a 12′ tall male would have up to 6X the strength (& weight) of a small 7′ male.

    I think a lot of guys using a .25-06, fully intend to pump a second or third round into a bear, even if they think they’re Annie Oakley. Any gun used on any animal is never 100% predictable and the animal’s behaviour is never 100% predictable.

    Most of our ancestors had to settle for 30-30 or 35 lever actions for deer & “bar”, & they thought that was adequate. Those lever actions with their old style lower performance poorer quality 150/170/200 grain bullets at 2400 to 2000 fps are unquestionably less powerful then a modern .25-06 120 grain bonded lead heavy safari H-frame or copper HP MRX with a tungsten alloy core in the rear handloaded to 3000 fps.

    Perhaps when that gang interviewed the Bluff Creek gang & tried to elicit some hanging his head down guilt feelings (as if they shot “Patty”)… well perhaps he did & the video can be interpreted that way for a “leg hernia” & back hit with crap slipping lead core, falling apart, no penetration 30.06 ammo of the time. Unlikely the Patterson gang would have been using the expensive mediocre Nosler Partition bullet of the time which in any event would blow off half its weight and lose half its power before being able to get near Squatch vitals. If “Patty” took multiple peripheral hits, she just walked it off and eventually healed or less likely died of infection quite a long time later. I mean she wasn’t yelling & running like a poorly hit by multiple .375 H&H and 458 Winchester Magnum rounds Alaskan brown bear would or a medium sized 9′ Squatch male well hit by modern bullets & heavy rifles would.

  26. odioustrident responds:

    If these findings don’t materialize it might trigger an exodus of right minded people from this field. If not the bigfoot saga of the last century is officially a joke.

  27. j stewart responds:

    no responsible or ethical hunter would use a 25-06 for bear of any kind. The 25-06 is on the small side even for medium sized deer. The 120 grain bullet does not generate the kenetic energy nor does it have the mass or penetration to hunt bear. While you can kill a bear with it,its just not a wise or safe practice to do so. I own a Remington 700 in 25-06 and have taken many deer with it yet it falls short on even medium sized hogs unless a neck or head shot is taken. No matter what bullet you use. Hunting any bear with a 25-06 is simply not the norm. A 30-30 with 170 grn soft pointed bullets will do more to drop a bear at close range than a 25 with a 120 grn. Most who hunt bear opt for a slower heavier bullet in whatever cal. they use and tend to stick to the beefier calibers. I have hunted deer and bear my whole life and all over the U.S. and never have I been in bear camp where someone was hunting bear with a varmint caliber.

  28. flame821 responds:


    You mean this guy is the shooter?

    He seems kind of young.

  29. RWRidley responds:

    Nominay – No offense, but JS doesn’t make sense. He’s part of OP. Why would he go to a Taxidermy site to tell his story and ask for advice when he’s got the OP guys (hunting and Bigfoot experts) at his disposal?

  30. Nominay responds:


    Yeah. That picture is from ’02. According to Lindsay he’s 29 now. Lindsay also unwittingly confirms it’s him in the other picture. So this is not speculation, it’s fact. One thing I want to clarify in my earlier post. My source doesn’t know that the controversy has been revived. I’ll refrain some saying further at this time. Let the pieces fall where they may for now …

  31. Big_Fugazzi responds:

    “He did not believe in Bigfoot at that time.”

    “Justin Smeja was introduced to Derek Randles after an encounter with a Sasquatch in the mountains of Northern Ca. Texas native, he now makes his home near Sacremento California and works in the construction trade. Avid hunter, tracker and fisherman, Justin specializes in scent control and camera set up.”

    Does this refer to the alleged shooting? Intersting it says “a Sasquatch”.

    Either he joined OP after the incident or there are major holes.

  32. RWRidley responds:

    Big_Fugazzi – Didn’t consider that.

  33. Nominay responds:

    @ RW
    Chronology. ‘Bear Hunter’ said all along that the shooter had deep ties to the Olympic Project once he, BH, got him in touch w/ OP, after he, BH, reached out to him following the furor at Taxidermy.net … and has been involved ever since. This is what Lindsay reported, and Randles confirmed this at Bigfootforums.
    The only holes Fugazzi are in the minds of those who have not followed the story.

  34. Big_Fugazzi responds:

    That remains to be seen.

    I believe most likely the contrary will be proven true. Just as those who spent hours following and debating the Biscardi hoax are missing a few brain cells, so will those who followed this poorly written fiction (including me).

  35. Nominay responds:

    I’m back at this thread only to correct my comment in response to Flame821. I meant this link in reference to this link, which btw, I came across the latter after my source identified the shooter. So there, now you all can forget this ever happened. Unless you’re like Big_Fugazzi of course, who disagrees with that premise.

  36. flame821 responds:

    @ Nominay

    I went to Lindsay’s link you provided. I’m having less and less faith in this man as a person, let alone as a journalist. He’s reporting rumors, including some that started/were posted on here as if they are truths. In fact, in several instances he is using ALMOST verbatim, our own theories and counterpoints as to why this is so unbelievable. (all without crediting the source, btw)

    Lindsay also seems to be playing all sides on the field. From ‘the hunter is a red-necked fundamental christian’ to ‘a hero like George Bush’ to ‘misunderstood but basically good sort of fellow’. He’s hitting too many buttons, using too many catch phrases and words meant to polarize us.

    This is stinking more and more. And then I see some of the most recent comments on his site, including one under the topic “are black people stupid” I think that tells me more about his site than I care to know. I think he’s just looking for traffic and sensationalism more than anything.

    All this brouhaha started on his site with his Sierra Killings story, so now I’m down to ‘consider the source’ and I’m not giving it a whole lot of credence.

  37. Red Earth White Lies responds:

    Still, the gun & sequence of events over the 1st two weeks is totally expected & nothing sets off an alarm. A .25-06 is just a faster-smaller projectile version of the “all around 30.06” that the Patterson gang had at Bluff Creek; exactly the same relationship as switching out an airgun barrel from .22 to .177… still more or less going to be attempted for 90% of the same game with “adequate” results. Bullet placement & bullet desgn.

    There is no evidence that the hunters had any connection with a “Bigfoot” organization prior to the shooting, otherwise there would be no doubt that they would have got to work immediately with pocket cameras/video & hunting knives/pocket saws cutting off various specimens for transport out of the area.

  38. j stewart responds:


    The 25/06 is a nowhere the same as the 30/06. Though the 25/06 is a necked down version as is the 270. The small 120 grn bullet which is the largest grn for the 25 is not capable of the same terminal ballistics of the 30/06 which can be loaded with up to a 220 grn bullet with a 180grn bei.g the norm. The design and light weight of the 25 is specifically aimed at light thin skinned game not bears. You cant use air guns as a comparison to firearms. They are two totally different animals. Comparing the 25/06 to the 30/06 is like comparing the 243 to the 308. Or the 22/250 to the 308. Same shell casing but way different terminal ballistics and intended purposes. Most bullets lose about 20 to 40 percent of bullet weight upon impact due to fragmentation which further decreases penetration. You would need a type bullet that just isn’t available in the 25. When hunting larger game anyone who is knowledgeable about guns and hunting would seldom choose a small caliber for bear. It’s just not common practice. For someone to choose what is commonly thought of as a varmint gun to hunt bear says loads about the experience and knowledge as well as the ethics of the hunter. With such a small caliber, anyone who knows anything about guns would just about only opt for a neck shot . The 25 doesn’t have the mass to get past thick hide and muscle and bone of most bears. Go to any hunting forum and ask about using a 25/06 on bear and you will hear the same. It is legal to hunt bear with the 25, it’s just not ethical or suggested. Any hunter wants a quick kill and never to wound an animal which means using the right gun for the game. Bottom line is the 25/06 is not a bear cartridge in anyone’s book. I am a Texas Hunter Education instructor in Shelby Co. and posed this question to several local and non local Game Officers with the same results previously stated by me.

  39. Nominay responds:

    @ Flame821
    For the time being I’ll have to disagree on Lindsay building his story on what Cryptomundians say as this is not apparent to me in the slightest. If you check out his articles which it sounds like you haven’t, he’s quite capable writing creatively on his own. He has NEVER said that the shooter is “misunderstood but basically a good kind of fellow”. You cannot find me that quote because it exists not (I’m not saying you’re a liar, I know you’re not, just that you are confused). He’s been consistent loathing this guy and telling us why.
    So let me get this straight – You think Smeja is a pawn of Robert Lindsay’s fiction? Everyone from Ken Walker to Derek Randles to my source and the now accused are all part of a conspiracy to I dunno, have the Olympic Project steal the Erickson Project’s thunder by making the OP look bad? “Hey guys, we have a serial, Bigfoot murderer on our team, he’s one of us!” Or was it suppose to benefit the EP somehow, which would make Randles a Benedict Arnold? Or did they all hatch this plan so that Lindsay could get more attention and feel important? I don’t understand how all this works, so I challenge you to make sense out of it. By all means, educate me.

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